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Yeah, that's the where the culture part comes in. Apple adds features in attempt to lure people to 'upgrade' from a nearly identical product. Touchbar, face-id

Yeah, that's the where the culture part comes in. Apple adds features in attempt to lure people to 'upgrade' from a nearly identical product. Touchbar, face-id, 'apple silicon'. Most of this stuff doesn't change the value proposition of the core product. I'd say that the majority of Apple's user base is largely there for status reasons, and those people upgrade to keep the status they feel the brand grants them. As someone who isn't an Apple fan, but who uses some of their products, I am very aware there are exceptions, but I'd suspect that, like me, these exceptions also don't follow the press release driven upgrade cycle. It's this type of consumerism that I'm personally not interested in. I want a tool, I want it be under my control. I want to be able to maintain it for its natural useful lifetime. That thinking does not belong in the culture Apple is fostering. (Edit: and yeah, I get that Apple isn't the only culprit here, it's just that if a company seems to be fostering a culture that fits my ideals, I'm willing to compromise on 'slickness')

Grustaf 5y ago
Apple Silicon was a very significant upgrade, my M1 Air is just insane. It's a ridiculously good computer. But if you want a tool, why do you want it to be "under your control"? I think most people are more like me, I just want a really nice computer that works well, I have exactly zero desire to replace the RAM or upgrade the SSD. For phones the
- gorjusborg 5y ago
  I own an M1 Air. It is a macbook, and seems fine so far, but it's over-hyped. I'll agree that it seems that currently most people are like you. They don't think about maintainability when it comes to belongings. If they care about the effects their actions have on the environment, they might want to start. If you are buying a new phone and laptop every two years, where are you putting the old one? What happens to the toxic materials in the batteries? Did you need to have a new machined aluminum shell, or could you have just replaced the part that was bad inside it? That all said, I don't have any illusions about changing the course of the average person's thoughts or habits via an HN post. Like I said in the original post, I'm done with buying throwaway goods if I have an alternative. I'm happy that an option like the framework exists.
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    I definitely don't buy a new laptop every two years, few people do, and when I do buy one, like most people, I sell or hand it down. Same with a phone, I don't think many people throw away 2 year old phones. Using a laptop intensively for 5-6 years cannot be called "throwaway culture". When it's finally unusable, Apple will recycle it for free, at least if you buy a new one at the same time. I don't know what they do with the battery, but I can't see why it would help if it was easily user replaceable. Maybe you feel that the M1 is overhyped because you only had your previous laptop for a year or two? Coming from a 2016 MBP the difference was huge. And of course that laptop is still in use 5-6 hours a day. Most importantly, assuming Framework is still around in 10 years, do you think you'll use it for significantly longer than 8 years, which I suppose will be the lifetime of my old MBP?
    - monetus 5y ago
      (Not who you responded to) I have three old macbooks laying around that people just gave me because they didn't know what to do with them - all broken in some way. I wonder how many people actually recycle their laptops, and am worried about the answer.

Grustaf 5y ago

Apple Silicon was a very significant upgrade, my M1 Air is just insane. It's a ridiculously good computer. But if you want a tool, why do you want it to be "under your control"? I think most people are more like me, I just want a really nice computer that works well, I have exactly zero desire to replace the RAM or upgrade the SSD. For phones the

gorjusborg 5y ago
I own an M1 Air. It is a macbook, and seems fine so far, but it's over-hyped. I'll agree that it seems that currently most people are like you. They don't think about maintainability when it comes to belongings. If they care about the effects their actions have on the environment, they might want to start. If you are buying a new phone and laptop every two years, where are you putting the old one? What happens to the toxic materials in the batteries? Did you need to have a new machined aluminum shell, or could you have just replaced the part that was bad inside it? That all said, I don't have any illusions about changing the course of the average person's thoughts or habits via an HN post. Like I said in the original post, I'm done with buying throwaway goods if I have an alternative. I'm happy that an option like the framework exists.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  I definitely don't buy a new laptop every two years, few people do, and when I do buy one, like most people, I sell or hand it down. Same with a phone, I don't think many people throw away 2 year old phones. Using a laptop intensively for 5-6 years cannot be called "throwaway culture". When it's finally unusable, Apple will recycle it for free, at least if you buy a new one at the same time. I don't know what they do with the battery, but I can't see why it would help if it was easily user replaceable. Maybe you feel that the M1 is overhyped because you only had your previous laptop for a year or two? Coming from a 2016 MBP the difference was huge. And of course that laptop is still in use 5-6 hours a day. Most importantly, assuming Framework is still around in 10 years, do you think you'll use it for significantly longer than 8 years, which I suppose will be the lifetime of my old MBP?
  - monetus 5y ago
    (Not who you responded to) I have three old macbooks laying around that people just gave me because they didn't know what to do with them - all broken in some way. I wonder how many people actually recycle their laptops, and am worried about the answer.