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I'm no stranger to involved and complicated games (Crusader Kings, Kerbal Space Program, as examples) but the Dwarf Fortress interface appeared to me to be some

I'm no stranger to involved and complicated games (Crusader Kings, Kerbal Space Program, as examples) but the Dwarf Fortress interface appeared to me to be some sort of elaborate ruse designed to test my patience, or to simply mock me. I'm glad the folks who have the patience to navigate those menus and decipher those "graphics" have rewarding experiences, but I'll wait for the Steam version with actual graphics, and god-willing a UI that isn't optimized to waste my time, before I give it another go.

ajuc 5y ago
There are mods and external tools that add normal graphics (top-down, isometric, even full 3d) and simplify micromanagement. It's not that bad if you use Lazy Newb Pack that has DF and most of these utils preconfigured. But yes, it isn't very accessible.
laumars 5y ago
There’s plenty of graphical versions of DF. You’re not stuck with the console version if you dont like it. I’m fact there is a graphical version on Steam already
- standardUser 5y ago
  I tried some of those, but in the end it was the interface that caused me to quit. As for Steam, that version is not released yet: https://store.steampowered.com/app/975370/Dwarf_Fortress/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/975370/Dwarf_Fortress/
munk-a 5y ago
I think to understand the UI you've got to have grown up with vim or emacs where offering a wide range of features via rather shallow keyboard interactions to enable power users. I wouldn't say that nested menu driven interactions are entirely suitable - and I think that the first time you go through it helps immensely to have a tutorial open that will lead you through some basic things (designate chopping some trees for lumber - for instance). I also think that people who have been with it longer have a leg up here since the UI has slowly accumulated more complexity over time - the military interface and trade interfaces in particular are pretty hard to grok. That all said - I would say that DF doesn't fall into a trap very common in modern games: it never lies to you in the UI for simplicity, it is clear about what it's doing and most of the errors are relatively clear to comprehend. Some of these have been accumulated over time (i.e. damp/warm stone warnings) but generally when a feature is added that feature gets consistently signaled in all the UI portions that need it and information is sanely repeated. A good example is lava-safe metals which are pretty clearly highlighted in areas where it might be relevant (i.e. building a floodgate and switch mechanisms). I've frequently heard talk that cell-shading adds artistic flair or bloom allows better tooling around creating bright scenes - but the immensely obvious and clear style that DF achieves brings precisely what it needs to bring to the table. Ascii graphics make that game clearly legible while still allowing the imagination to roam and beautiful structures to be created - making a multi-z-level dining hall with balconies adding extra floor space around the roaring fire in the middle of the hall with dwarves dancing merrily around it... that is quite possible in DF - it's just not going to look like a triple-A game.
MrMember 5y ago
The devlogs they've done showing off the new UI for the Steam version makes it look really promising. The keyboard interface is inconsistent and a complete mess in some cases and they're making a lot of that mouse driven.
outworlder 5y ago
The interface is arcane at times. For the most part, it is logically laid out and you can become proficient at it. Except the godforsaken jobs interface. But that seems to be a hard problem, because even with Dwarf Therapist I would struggle with the hordes of migrants.

ajuc 5y ago

There are mods and external tools that add normal graphics (top-down, isometric, even full 3d) and simplify micromanagement. It's not that bad if you use Lazy Newb Pack that has DF and most of these utils preconfigured. But yes, it isn't very accessible.

laumars 5y ago

There’s plenty of graphical versions of DF. You’re not stuck with the console version if you dont like it. I’m fact there is a graphical version on Steam already

standardUser 5y ago
I tried some of those, but in the end it was the interface that caused me to quit. As for Steam, that version is not released yet: https://store.steampowered.com/app/975370/Dwarf_Fortress/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/975370/Dwarf_Fortress/

munk-a 5y ago

I think to understand the UI you've got to have grown up with vim or emacs where offering a wide range of features via rather shallow keyboard interactions to enable power users. I wouldn't say that nested menu driven interactions are entirely suitable - and I think that the first time you go through it helps immensely to have a tutorial open that will lead you through some basic things (designate chopping some trees for lumber - for instance). I also think that people who have been with it longer have a leg up here since the UI has slowly accumulated more complexity over time - the military interface and trade interfaces in particular are pretty hard to grok. That all said - I would say that DF doesn't fall into a trap very common in modern games: it never lies to you in the UI for simplicity, it is clear about what it's doing and most of the errors are relatively clear to comprehend. Some of these have been accumulated over time (i.e. damp/warm stone warnings) but generally when a feature is added that feature gets consistently signaled in all the UI portions that need it and information is sanely repeated. A good example is lava-safe metals which are pretty clearly highlighted in areas where it might be relevant (i.e. building a floodgate and switch mechanisms). I've frequently heard talk that cell-shading adds artistic flair or bloom allows better tooling around creating bright scenes - but the immensely obvious and clear style that DF achieves brings precisely what it needs to bring to the table. Ascii graphics make that game clearly legible while still allowing the imagination to roam and beautiful structures to be created - making a multi-z-level dining hall with balconies adding extra floor space around the roaring fire in the middle of the hall with dwarves dancing merrily around it... that is quite possible in DF - it's just not going to look like a triple-A game.

MrMember 5y ago

The devlogs they've done showing off the new UI for the Steam version makes it look really promising. The keyboard interface is inconsistent and a complete mess in some cases and they're making a lot of that mouse driven.

outworlder 5y ago

The interface is arcane at times. For the most part, it is logically laid out and you can become proficient at it. Except the godforsaken jobs interface. But that seems to be a hard problem, because even with Dwarf Therapist I would struggle with the hordes of migrants.