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This seems to be overstating Apple’s position as neutral here, they are actively hostile to jailbreakers, and Apple will try to stop you any way they can.

mrtksn 5y ago
I agree. The practical result of the current situation is that Apple can choose what apps most people can install into the their devices but this needs to be framed correctly because Apple actually targets the developers and not the users when they practically control the app distribution to the devices they sold. Why is it important? Because when described incorrectly, solutions will also be incorrect. Apple doesn’t control it because Tim Cook gets hard when doesn’t allow some apps into the phones of the customers. They do it because they want to be paid for the intellectual properties and opportunities they provide, they also want to be able to continue selling iPhones at premium prices and in this competitive environment they want to be able to control the working of the devices so to provide premium experience.
- spywaregorilla 5y ago
  > they want to be able to control the working of the devices so to provide premium experience. Well too fucking bad. They can offer their premium services as a fair competitor in the market and if people want that, they can choose it, and if they don't, they can choose other things.
  - mrtksn 5y ago
    > They can offer their premium services as a fair competitor in the market and if people want that, they can choose it, and if they don't, they can choose other things. Yes, that's exactly the situation. If people don't like it, they go buy a Samsung, a Pixel, Xiaomi, a Huawei, a Sony etc. There's no need for Apple be compelled do anything, there are plenty of options when you don't like the Apple offerings. And those alternatives are not like Bing to Google, these are very viable alternatives where Apple is actually a small minority of the market. It's %50 in the US and much, much less in the rest of the world.
    - spywaregorilla 5y ago
      Choice of hardware should not restrict the choice of software.
dkonofalski 5y ago
Jailbreaking, by definition, is using exploits and vulnerabilities in the security of the device to bypass said security. Of course Apple is going to try and stop that. If they didn't, they'd be admitting that they don't care about the security of their devices which is a major factor in why people and companies buy their devices.
- rscoots 5y ago
  Hmm then possibly Apple could simply allow consenting users to install software by means other than their highly-regulated appstore cash grab. Every major cosumer 'computer' in history has allowed this as far as I can tell. Yet for some reason now in the last few years its unthinkable on specifically Apple devices. I'm sure it's merely a coincidence they make billions of dollars off of this overly draconian "security" framework.
- FireBeyond 5y ago
  You're conflating device and software. The user owns the device - Apple has no right to stop you using the device as you see fit. At the software layer? It's been litigated on more than one occasion that a company can't sue people to prevent jailbreaking their own devices.
  - dkonofalski 5y ago
    No one's talking about suing anyone. We're talking about Apple fixing the exploits that allow jailbreakers to do what they do.

mrtksn 5y ago

I agree. The practical result of the current situation is that Apple can choose what apps most people can install into the their devices but this needs to be framed correctly because Apple actually targets the developers and not the users when they practically control the app distribution to the devices they sold. Why is it important? Because when described incorrectly, solutions will also be incorrect. Apple doesn’t control it because Tim Cook gets hard when doesn’t allow some apps into the phones of the customers. They do it because they want to be paid for the intellectual properties and opportunities they provide, they also want to be able to continue selling iPhones at premium prices and in this competitive environment they want to be able to control the working of the devices so to provide premium experience.

spywaregorilla 5y ago
> they want to be able to control the working of the devices so to provide premium experience. Well too fucking bad. They can offer their premium services as a fair competitor in the market and if people want that, they can choose it, and if they don't, they can choose other things.
- mrtksn 5y ago
  > They can offer their premium services as a fair competitor in the market and if people want that, they can choose it, and if they don't, they can choose other things. Yes, that's exactly the situation. If people don't like it, they go buy a Samsung, a Pixel, Xiaomi, a Huawei, a Sony etc. There's no need for Apple be compelled do anything, there are plenty of options when you don't like the Apple offerings. And those alternatives are not like Bing to Google, these are very viable alternatives where Apple is actually a small minority of the market. It's %50 in the US and much, much less in the rest of the world.
  - spywaregorilla 5y ago
    Choice of hardware should not restrict the choice of software.

dkonofalski 5y ago

Jailbreaking, by definition, is using exploits and vulnerabilities in the security of the device to bypass said security. Of course Apple is going to try and stop that. If they didn't, they'd be admitting that they don't care about the security of their devices which is a major factor in why people and companies buy their devices.

rscoots 5y ago
Hmm then possibly Apple could simply allow consenting users to install software by means other than their highly-regulated appstore cash grab. Every major cosumer 'computer' in history has allowed this as far as I can tell. Yet for some reason now in the last few years its unthinkable on specifically Apple devices. I'm sure it's merely a coincidence they make billions of dollars off of this overly draconian "security" framework.
FireBeyond 5y ago
You're conflating device and software. The user owns the device - Apple has no right to stop you using the device as you see fit. At the software layer? It's been litigated on more than one occasion that a company can't sue people to prevent jailbreaking their own devices.
- dkonofalski 5y ago
  No one's talking about suing anyone. We're talking about Apple fixing the exploits that allow jailbreakers to do what they do.