4 ms·

Good! I'm not sure when it happened exactly, but Spain went crazy for over-packaging supermarket fresh fruits and vegetables in plastic. When I lived there as

Good! I'm not sure when it happened exactly, but Spain went crazy for over-packaging supermarket fresh fruits and vegetables in plastic. When I lived there as a kid, it was basically just thin polyethylene bags. When I went back about three years ago.. it was much worse than here in Britain, which I already thought bad.

hef19898 5y ago
Italian supermarkets, at least all those i saw during my vacation there this summer, had bio-degradable bags for almost everything. Those that weren't you had to pay for. Not sure why that isn't the case everywhere. Of course, bringing your own non-plastic bag would be better.
- detritus 5y ago
  Yeah, Italy is surprisingly good in this regard - even their recycling seems well-organised, although I'm still unsure how/why they mix soft plastics in with bottles, etc. I was under the impression that sort of mixing screwed up the recycling chain. I know I'm at constant loggerheads with my Italian partner who keeps putting soft plastics in the recyling here in London, even though it's supposed to be filtered out!
  - hef19898 5y ago
    Us Germans are recycling for what seem to be forever. At first the Italian system (it is quite a while we spent time there) was really confusing. One get's used to it so, I still mixed up the colors between organic and plastic waste occsionally so.
    - formerly_proven 5y ago
      A major reason for trash separation is actually easier furnace control for burning it, not recycling.
- gruez 5y ago
  >had bio-degradable bags for almost everything Are we talking "paper bags" or "bio-degradable plastics" here? The former is trivially compostable, whereas the latter requires industrial composting conditions, and depending on the polymer type, might just end up "composting" into microplastics.
  - hef19898 5y ago
    Plastics. I used to work for a chemical additive manufacturer a while back, they had additives for foils that resulted in a brake down into molecules that could be consumed by bacteria in the ground. Even did some tests according some EU standards. Not sure if those bags in the supermarkets were up to those standards.
    - ptman 5y ago
      IIUC biodegradable plastic bags must be fermented in an industrial fermenter to break down properly. If it ends up in nature it will break down to microplastics.
pvaldes 5y ago
Because fruit is fragile
- onion2k 5y ago
  It is, but it's also true that slightly bruised or damaged fruit is still perfectly edible.
- onemoresoop 5y ago
  Use biodegradable containers or if you insist on plastics, use a strict recycling program where you pay extra for the container and you can get money back if it gets to a recycling facility. If you're lazy and don't care to return the item to some recycling facility someone else will for that deposit... Plastic recycling is not great though and it's better to use plastic sparingly.. One time use plastics are the worst offenders for the environment.
  - pvaldes 5y ago
    There are several scandals of corruption about recycling programs (that billed and taxed but didnt't recycled) in the past. The effect is similar to the 'Tax to the Sun' in the last years that destroyed by design most public interest into solar projects after deliberately making the life of the independent solar domestic producers a bureaucratic nightmare. Now they try to convince people to adopt it, but there is a lost of distrust by people risking their money aware that a change in the government would block it again, because some people have an economic interest into blocking the adoption of clean energies. Most people interested in nature conservation had been punished and burnt a few times yet, so much of the momentum has been lost. People promoting "Two time use" plastics forgot that mold loves fruit, so you need to protect your product from spores and bruises that would destroy totally your investment. You would wrap a second fruit on the same plastic and is like bathing it into rooted stuff, is spoiled really quick. To made illegal to wrap in plastics the same fruit that is cultured in the so called 'sea of plastics' is heartwarming but also a perfect irony. To compensate the loses in spoiled fruits we would need to increase the surface covered in plastic to culture more fruits. Promoting to eat more meat and less fruit would be a much more efficient way.

hef19898 5y ago

Italian supermarkets, at least all those i saw during my vacation there this summer, had bio-degradable bags for almost everything. Those that weren't you had to pay for. Not sure why that isn't the case everywhere. Of course, bringing your own non-plastic bag would be better.

detritus 5y ago
Yeah, Italy is surprisingly good in this regard - even their recycling seems well-organised, although I'm still unsure how/why they mix soft plastics in with bottles, etc. I was under the impression that sort of mixing screwed up the recycling chain. I know I'm at constant loggerheads with my Italian partner who keeps putting soft plastics in the recyling here in London, even though it's supposed to be filtered out!
- hef19898 5y ago
  Us Germans are recycling for what seem to be forever. At first the Italian system (it is quite a while we spent time there) was really confusing. One get's used to it so, I still mixed up the colors between organic and plastic waste occsionally so.
  - formerly_proven 5y ago
    A major reason for trash separation is actually easier furnace control for burning it, not recycling.
gruez 5y ago
>had bio-degradable bags for almost everything Are we talking "paper bags" or "bio-degradable plastics" here? The former is trivially compostable, whereas the latter requires industrial composting conditions, and depending on the polymer type, might just end up "composting" into microplastics.
- hef19898 5y ago
  Plastics. I used to work for a chemical additive manufacturer a while back, they had additives for foils that resulted in a brake down into molecules that could be consumed by bacteria in the ground. Even did some tests according some EU standards. Not sure if those bags in the supermarkets were up to those standards.
  - ptman 5y ago
    IIUC biodegradable plastic bags must be fermented in an industrial fermenter to break down properly. If it ends up in nature it will break down to microplastics.

pvaldes 5y ago

Because fruit is fragile

onion2k 5y ago
It is, but it's also true that slightly bruised or damaged fruit is still perfectly edible.
onemoresoop 5y ago
Use biodegradable containers or if you insist on plastics, use a strict recycling program where you pay extra for the container and you can get money back if it gets to a recycling facility. If you're lazy and don't care to return the item to some recycling facility someone else will for that deposit... Plastic recycling is not great though and it's better to use plastic sparingly.. One time use plastics are the worst offenders for the environment.
- pvaldes 5y ago
  There are several scandals of corruption about recycling programs (that billed and taxed but didnt't recycled) in the past. The effect is similar to the 'Tax to the Sun' in the last years that destroyed by design most public interest into solar projects after deliberately making the life of the independent solar domestic producers a bureaucratic nightmare. Now they try to convince people to adopt it, but there is a lost of distrust by people risking their money aware that a change in the government would block it again, because some people have an economic interest into blocking the adoption of clean energies. Most people interested in nature conservation had been punished and burnt a few times yet, so much of the momentum has been lost. People promoting "Two time use" plastics forgot that mold loves fruit, so you need to protect your product from spores and bruises that would destroy totally your investment. You would wrap a second fruit on the same plastic and is like bathing it into rooted stuff, is spoiled really quick. To made illegal to wrap in plastics the same fruit that is cultured in the so called 'sea of plastics' is heartwarming but also a perfect irony. To compensate the loses in spoiled fruits we would need to increase the surface covered in plastic to culture more fruits. Promoting to eat more meat and less fruit would be a much more efficient way.