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I am anti the clocks moving around. Others can fight about what we call “5pm”, but for the love of everything holy, just stop moving the clocks. I’ll happily a

I am anti the clocks moving around. Others can fight about what we call “5pm”, but for the love of everything holy, just stop moving the clocks. I’ll happily ally with whichever side (“anti-winter” or “anti-summer”) that appears most likely to deliver a political victory that ends the madness.

rafaelturk 5y ago
makes a lot of sense..
WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
For the "Kids go to school in darkness" argument against winter DST: Start schools at the biologically optimal time, not the budgetary one.
- soperj 5y ago
  Do that for work as well.
  - monkeybutton 5y ago
    For all of you who work in tech jobs with somewhat flexible hours, I'll let you in on a secret: There's nothing stopping you from doing that now. I banished the time change from my life and get up at the same physiological time all year. Half the year I do 8 to 4 and the other half I do 9 to 5. It's wonderful and I implore you all to try it!
- sjburt 5y ago
  The biologically optimal time moves around. People wake near sunrise. DST keeps sunrise at a more consistent time at the expense of moving sunset around.
  - lugged 5y ago
    People wake near sunrise because DST keeps moving the fucking clock mate.
  - cuu508 5y ago
    Ok, then start school at 8AM one month and 9AM the other month, but don't move the clocks.
    - RestlessMind 5y ago
      If school times are going to shuffle around, then ther parents' schedules will also shuffle around. Then we have to shuffle schedules for a big chunk of economy every 6 months. How can we optimize that process? Oh wait, let's just move the time around. Aha - now everyone is synchronized automatically.
      - sosborn 5y ago
        It's interesting that the answer you came to wasn't "we should align parents' schedules with the biologically optimal time too."
        Riseed 5y ago
        How well does the biologically optimal time for parents line up with the biologically optimal time for any and all of their kids in school?
        sosborn 5y ago
        The point I was trying to make is that choosing an optimum should be centered around the education of the world's children. Standard business hours are really a case of "well, we've always done it this way so why should we change," rather than "this the best thing for the everyone involved." I think we are moving towards that somewhat, with companies becoming more flexible with working hours/locations in the past year and a half.
  - VLM 5y ago
    > People wake near sunrise. I found it surprisingly difficult to find data. Not just data for or data against, but any data at all. What little I found organized by month seems to accurately show the percentage of the month typically on vacation (so people sleep later on average in August than September, or they sleep a lot later in Dec than in Oct due to holidays, at least in the north hemisphere). I theorized that regardless of DST people would wake up later from June thru Nov (DST starts in Nov where I live). Unfortunately the graph shows the opposite trend of people tending to wake up on average almost 4 minutes earlier in Oct than in Sept. Or in spring our DST ends in March, so I expected people to wake up earlier in May than in April, but its the other way around by five minutes. I'd theorize if required wake up times strictly followed solar elevation, then something like a graph of car accidents vs time of day would vary greatly by month, but it doesn't seem to in what little data I could find. "Most dangerous time to drive" graphs seem to imply evening rush hour is a little more than twice as dangerous as morning rush hour so that would seem to imply morning wakefullness problems are statistically insignificant. (Edited to note: I'm not insisting you're wrong, but I am insisting I can't find much of any data on the topic, maybe you are right but nobody knows for certain...)
- maccard 5y ago
  I live in Scotland, kids go to school in the dark during winter anyway
  - bloak 5y ago
    Yes, but there are degrees of "dark" ... According to timeanddate.com, the latest sunrise in Durness (NW Scotland, on the mainland) is at 09:09, at the end of December, but "civil twilight" is then at 08:16, so if school starts at 09:00 a lot of people can presumably travel to school with at least some natural light. On the other hand, if they were using UTC+1 it would be civil twilight from 09:16 and sunrise at 10:09, which would be sort of horrible, surely, because then you really would be travelling at night? The shortest day in Durness lasts 6 hours 18 minutes. In England typical school hours are 09:00-15:00. If those are the school hours in Scotland, and you're dealing with not much more than 6 hours of sunlight in the winter, then I would have thought that a good time for local noon would be around 12:00 rather than around 13:00. So I hope that a lot of Scots will join me in asking for UTC+0 all year rather than UTC+1 all year!

rafaelturk 5y ago

makes a lot of sense..

WarOnPrivacy 5y ago

For the "Kids go to school in darkness" argument against winter DST: Start schools at the biologically optimal time, not the budgetary one.

soperj 5y ago
Do that for work as well.
- monkeybutton 5y ago
  For all of you who work in tech jobs with somewhat flexible hours, I'll let you in on a secret: There's nothing stopping you from doing that now. I banished the time change from my life and get up at the same physiological time all year. Half the year I do 8 to 4 and the other half I do 9 to 5. It's wonderful and I implore you all to try it!
sjburt 5y ago
The biologically optimal time moves around. People wake near sunrise. DST keeps sunrise at a more consistent time at the expense of moving sunset around.
- lugged 5y ago
  People wake near sunrise because DST keeps moving the fucking clock mate.
- cuu508 5y ago
  Ok, then start school at 8AM one month and 9AM the other month, but don't move the clocks.
  - RestlessMind 5y ago
    If school times are going to shuffle around, then ther parents' schedules will also shuffle around. Then we have to shuffle schedules for a big chunk of economy every 6 months. How can we optimize that process? Oh wait, let's just move the time around. Aha - now everyone is synchronized automatically.
    - sosborn 5y ago
      It's interesting that the answer you came to wasn't "we should align parents' schedules with the biologically optimal time too."
      - Riseed 5y ago
        How well does the biologically optimal time for parents line up with the biologically optimal time for any and all of their kids in school?
        sosborn 5y ago
        The point I was trying to make is that choosing an optimum should be centered around the education of the world's children. Standard business hours are really a case of "well, we've always done it this way so why should we change," rather than "this the best thing for the everyone involved." I think we are moving towards that somewhat, with companies becoming more flexible with working hours/locations in the past year and a half.
- VLM 5y ago
  > People wake near sunrise. I found it surprisingly difficult to find data. Not just data for or data against, but any data at all. What little I found organized by month seems to accurately show the percentage of the month typically on vacation (so people sleep later on average in August than September, or they sleep a lot later in Dec than in Oct due to holidays, at least in the north hemisphere). I theorized that regardless of DST people would wake up later from June thru Nov (DST starts in Nov where I live). Unfortunately the graph shows the opposite trend of people tending to wake up on average almost 4 minutes earlier in Oct than in Sept. Or in spring our DST ends in March, so I expected people to wake up earlier in May than in April, but its the other way around by five minutes. I'd theorize if required wake up times strictly followed solar elevation, then something like a graph of car accidents vs time of day would vary greatly by month, but it doesn't seem to in what little data I could find. "Most dangerous time to drive" graphs seem to imply evening rush hour is a little more than twice as dangerous as morning rush hour so that would seem to imply morning wakefullness problems are statistically insignificant. (Edited to note: I'm not insisting you're wrong, but I am insisting I can't find much of any data on the topic, maybe you are right but nobody knows for certain...)
maccard 5y ago
I live in Scotland, kids go to school in the dark during winter anyway
- bloak 5y ago
  Yes, but there are degrees of "dark" ... According to timeanddate.com, the latest sunrise in Durness (NW Scotland, on the mainland) is at 09:09, at the end of December, but "civil twilight" is then at 08:16, so if school starts at 09:00 a lot of people can presumably travel to school with at least some natural light. On the other hand, if they were using UTC+1 it would be civil twilight from 09:16 and sunrise at 10:09, which would be sort of horrible, surely, because then you really would be travelling at night? The shortest day in Durness lasts 6 hours 18 minutes. In England typical school hours are 09:00-15:00. If those are the school hours in Scotland, and you're dealing with not much more than 6 hours of sunlight in the winter, then I would have thought that a good time for local noon would be around 12:00 rather than around 13:00. So I hope that a lot of Scots will join me in asking for UTC+0 all year rather than UTC+1 all year!