5 ms·

Are you anti winter time or anti summer time though? I am anti the clocks going back in winter and making it even darker in the evenings, but some people want t

Are you anti winter time or anti summer time though? I am anti the clocks going back in winter and making it even darker in the evenings, but some people want to scrap summer time so the evenings are darker all year round!

ncallaway 5y ago
I am anti the clocks moving around. Others can fight about what we call “5pm”, but for the love of everything holy, just stop moving the clocks. I’ll happily ally with whichever side (“anti-winter” or “anti-summer”) that appears most likely to deliver a political victory that ends the madness.
- rafaelturk 5y ago
  makes a lot of sense..
- WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
  For the "Kids go to school in darkness" argument against winter DST: Start schools at the biologically optimal time, not the budgetary one.
  - soperj 5y ago
    Do that for work as well.
    - monkeybutton 5y ago
      For all of you who work in tech jobs with somewhat flexible hours, I'll let you in on a secret: There's nothing stopping you from doing that now. I banished the time change from my life and get up at the same physiological time all year. Half the year I do 8 to 4 and the other half I do 9 to 5. It's wonderful and I implore you all to try it!
  - sjburt 5y ago
    The biologically optimal time moves around. People wake near sunrise. DST keeps sunrise at a more consistent time at the expense of moving sunset around.
    - lugged 5y ago
      People wake near sunrise because DST keeps moving the fucking clock mate.
    - cuu508 5y ago
      Ok, then start school at 8AM one month and 9AM the other month, but don't move the clocks.
      - RestlessMind 5y ago
        If school times are going to shuffle around, then ther parents' schedules will also shuffle around. Then we have to shuffle schedules for a big chunk of economy every 6 months. How can we optimize that process? Oh wait, let's just move the time around. Aha - now everyone is synchronized automatically.
        sosborn 5y ago
        It's interesting that the answer you came to wasn't "we should align parents' schedules with the biologically optimal time too."
        Riseed 5y ago
        How well does the biologically optimal time for parents line up with the biologically optimal time for any and all of their kids in school?
        sosborn 5y ago
        The point I was trying to make is that choosing an optimum should be centered around the education of the world's children. Standard business hours are really a case of "well, we've always done it this way so why should we change," rather than "this the best thing for the everyone involved." I think we are moving towards that somewhat, with companies becoming more flexible with working hours/locations in the past year and a half.
  - maccard 5y ago
    I live in Scotland, kids go to school in the dark during winter anyway
    - bloak 5y ago
      Yes, but there are degrees of "dark" ... According to timeanddate.com, the latest sunrise in Durness (NW Scotland, on the mainland) is at 09:09, at the end of December, but "civil twilight" is then at 08:16, so if school starts at 09:00 a lot of people can presumably travel to school with at least some natural light. On the other hand, if they were using UTC+1 it would be civil twilight from 09:16 and sunrise at 10:09, which would be sort of horrible, surely, because then you really would be travelling at night? The shortest day in Durness lasts 6 hours 18 minutes. In England typical school hours are 09:00-15:00. If those are the school hours in Scotland, and you're dealing with not much more than 6 hours of sunlight in the winter, then I would have thought that a good time for local noon would be around 12:00 rather than around 13:00. So I hope that a lot of Scots will join me in asking for UTC+0 all year rather than UTC+1 all year!
bennyp101 5y ago
Gotta keep the evening lighter, especially now more people aren't traveling early mornings as much - which I always found a weird argument, not like you need the sunlight to be able to get somewhere. Most people (I would bet) want to finish work and be able to do things after.
- RestlessMind 5y ago
  Kids have started going back to schools and I don't want them to travel in the dark.
  - JohnFen 5y ago
    At my latitude (northern part of the US), the changing clock doesn't affect that. It only affects whether they'll be traveling in the dark in the morning or evening. And, during the depths of winter, they'll be traveling in the dark both ways in any case.
    - zamadatix 5y ago
      As someone who grew up in Michigan the "both ways" claim seemed odd and upon checking unless "nothern part of the US" includes Alaska/the arctic circle (which seems a bit unfair) that doesn't seem true. The shortest day for the absolute northernmost point in the continental US has sunrise just before 8:00 am and sunset just after 4:30 pm. With most schools starting at 7:30 and ending at 2:30 it works out for one way adjustment or not. I remember trying to get kids in extracurriculars heading home by sunset was actually a goal of scheduling but obviously that's not always possible particularly during in season due to the extra travel time prior to the game.
- blacksmith_tb 5y ago
  Sort of - I have always called it "daylight shifting time" since nothing is saved, just shuffled around. Unfortunately the switching itself causes enough extra casulties[1] that I can't say it's worth it. 1: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-accidents-daylight-saving-idUSKBN1ZT2W3 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-accidents-daylight...
pkulak 5y ago
Anti DST for me. To the point that I'd rather just keep jumping back and forth rather than go permanent DST. Waking up and living your first hour in darkness ain't healthy.
- xvedejas 5y ago
  Surely schedules would adjust, right? In northern latitudes I commonly see different summer hours for shops for instance, it's about time middle latitudes adopt this simple strategy instead of abrupt time changes.
  - pkulak 5y ago
    Adjusting schedules is exactly what switching clocks around does. For example, you can't adjust school schedules and keep kids from walking to school in the dark without also changing work and daycare schedules, which means coffee shops have to change schedule, etc.
    - xvedejas 5y ago
      Switching clocks changes the schedule only by one hour, in a one-size-fits-all fashion. Even at 30deg north, summer and winter sunrises are multiple hours apart. This is why summer and winter schedules for businesses are multiple hours apart in far northern areas. Somehow enough coordination is managed organically.
toss1 5y ago
My basic take is that I'm mostly in the keep standard time ("winter time" in your parlance) camp. I want the sun up earlier to be able to run/bike in the morning, and I also like noon being somewhat close to where the sun crosses the meridian. What I think really makes the most sense is just global time - UTC everywhere. Yes, I've seen the args against it and I think it would all be a lot more adaptable. Either way, just stop it with moving the clocks. Not only is it a major PITA for everyone, studies have shown that it actually causes increases in road and work accidents. And, whatever rationale for energy savings has now been reversed, since air conditioning drives energy use far more than lighting. Just Stop It. Note on the origin, from what I've read, one of the most likely origins is Ben Franklin's joke about the French, that they'd change the time system laws to save candle wax. I haven't read anything that substantially proves or refutes that, and I think we've honored Ben's joke enough already.
- iggldiggl 5y ago
  > What I think really makes the most sense is just global time - UTC everywhere. Yes, I've seen the args against it and I think it would all be a lot more adaptable. So more than half of the planet has "midnight" (i.e. the change of the calendar date because it's 00:00 UTC) happening during waking hours and each solar day is being split into two calendar days? No thank you.
TheSmiddy 5y ago
As a South Australian I like that both our times are offensive so we can just split the difference and finally get an on the hour timezone like everywhere should be. Anywhere else and I'm pro summer time all the time.
adolph 5y ago
Like the sibling comment, I'm against moving clocks around. I used to ease my way into it by not changing clocks until keeping track of old time and new time got to be a hassle. Now-a-days my org does DR activation a few days before and reactivates when the time changes so I'm kind of resetting sleep that Sunday anyway.
fullstop 5y ago
Move it mid-way and forget about it.
JohnFen 5y ago
My preference is that we just stay on standard time permanently -- when it's noon, the sun should be at (or near, given time zones) the highest point it's going to get that day. But I think getting rid of the time change is a bigger deal, and I'll accept daylight savings time as the permanent one if that will help us to more quickly end the time change.

ncallaway 5y ago

I am anti the clocks moving around. Others can fight about what we call “5pm”, but for the love of everything holy, just stop moving the clocks. I’ll happily ally with whichever side (“anti-winter” or “anti-summer”) that appears most likely to deliver a political victory that ends the madness.

rafaelturk 5y ago
makes a lot of sense..
WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
For the "Kids go to school in darkness" argument against winter DST: Start schools at the biologically optimal time, not the budgetary one.
- soperj 5y ago
  Do that for work as well.
  - monkeybutton 5y ago
    For all of you who work in tech jobs with somewhat flexible hours, I'll let you in on a secret: There's nothing stopping you from doing that now. I banished the time change from my life and get up at the same physiological time all year. Half the year I do 8 to 4 and the other half I do 9 to 5. It's wonderful and I implore you all to try it!
- sjburt 5y ago
  The biologically optimal time moves around. People wake near sunrise. DST keeps sunrise at a more consistent time at the expense of moving sunset around.
  - lugged 5y ago
    People wake near sunrise because DST keeps moving the fucking clock mate.
  - cuu508 5y ago
    Ok, then start school at 8AM one month and 9AM the other month, but don't move the clocks.
    - RestlessMind 5y ago
      If school times are going to shuffle around, then ther parents' schedules will also shuffle around. Then we have to shuffle schedules for a big chunk of economy every 6 months. How can we optimize that process? Oh wait, let's just move the time around. Aha - now everyone is synchronized automatically.
      - sosborn 5y ago
        It's interesting that the answer you came to wasn't "we should align parents' schedules with the biologically optimal time too."
        Riseed 5y ago
        How well does the biologically optimal time for parents line up with the biologically optimal time for any and all of their kids in school?
        sosborn 5y ago
        The point I was trying to make is that choosing an optimum should be centered around the education of the world's children. Standard business hours are really a case of "well, we've always done it this way so why should we change," rather than "this the best thing for the everyone involved." I think we are moving towards that somewhat, with companies becoming more flexible with working hours/locations in the past year and a half.
- maccard 5y ago
  I live in Scotland, kids go to school in the dark during winter anyway
  - bloak 5y ago
    Yes, but there are degrees of "dark" ... According to timeanddate.com, the latest sunrise in Durness (NW Scotland, on the mainland) is at 09:09, at the end of December, but "civil twilight" is then at 08:16, so if school starts at 09:00 a lot of people can presumably travel to school with at least some natural light. On the other hand, if they were using UTC+1 it would be civil twilight from 09:16 and sunrise at 10:09, which would be sort of horrible, surely, because then you really would be travelling at night? The shortest day in Durness lasts 6 hours 18 minutes. In England typical school hours are 09:00-15:00. If those are the school hours in Scotland, and you're dealing with not much more than 6 hours of sunlight in the winter, then I would have thought that a good time for local noon would be around 12:00 rather than around 13:00. So I hope that a lot of Scots will join me in asking for UTC+0 all year rather than UTC+1 all year!

bennyp101 5y ago

Gotta keep the evening lighter, especially now more people aren't traveling early mornings as much - which I always found a weird argument, not like you need the sunlight to be able to get somewhere. Most people (I would bet) want to finish work and be able to do things after.

RestlessMind 5y ago
Kids have started going back to schools and I don't want them to travel in the dark.
- JohnFen 5y ago
  At my latitude (northern part of the US), the changing clock doesn't affect that. It only affects whether they'll be traveling in the dark in the morning or evening. And, during the depths of winter, they'll be traveling in the dark both ways in any case.
  - zamadatix 5y ago
    As someone who grew up in Michigan the "both ways" claim seemed odd and upon checking unless "nothern part of the US" includes Alaska/the arctic circle (which seems a bit unfair) that doesn't seem true. The shortest day for the absolute northernmost point in the continental US has sunrise just before 8:00 am and sunset just after 4:30 pm. With most schools starting at 7:30 and ending at 2:30 it works out for one way adjustment or not. I remember trying to get kids in extracurriculars heading home by sunset was actually a goal of scheduling but obviously that's not always possible particularly during in season due to the extra travel time prior to the game.
blacksmith_tb 5y ago
Sort of - I have always called it "daylight shifting time" since nothing is saved, just shuffled around. Unfortunately the switching itself causes enough extra casulties[1] that I can't say it's worth it. 1: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-accidents-daylight-saving-idUSKBN1ZT2W3 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-accidents-daylight...

pkulak 5y ago

Anti DST for me. To the point that I'd rather just keep jumping back and forth rather than go permanent DST. Waking up and living your first hour in darkness ain't healthy.

xvedejas 5y ago
Surely schedules would adjust, right? In northern latitudes I commonly see different summer hours for shops for instance, it's about time middle latitudes adopt this simple strategy instead of abrupt time changes.
- pkulak 5y ago
  Adjusting schedules is exactly what switching clocks around does. For example, you can't adjust school schedules and keep kids from walking to school in the dark without also changing work and daycare schedules, which means coffee shops have to change schedule, etc.
  - xvedejas 5y ago
    Switching clocks changes the schedule only by one hour, in a one-size-fits-all fashion. Even at 30deg north, summer and winter sunrises are multiple hours apart. This is why summer and winter schedules for businesses are multiple hours apart in far northern areas. Somehow enough coordination is managed organically.

toss1 5y ago

My basic take is that I'm mostly in the keep standard time ("winter time" in your parlance) camp. I want the sun up earlier to be able to run/bike in the morning, and I also like noon being somewhat close to where the sun crosses the meridian. What I think really makes the most sense is just global time - UTC everywhere. Yes, I've seen the args against it and I think it would all be a lot more adaptable. Either way, just stop it with moving the clocks. Not only is it a major PITA for everyone, studies have shown that it actually causes increases in road and work accidents. And, whatever rationale for energy savings has now been reversed, since air conditioning drives energy use far more than lighting. Just Stop It. Note on the origin, from what I've read, one of the most likely origins is Ben Franklin's joke about the French, that they'd change the time system laws to save candle wax. I haven't read anything that substantially proves or refutes that, and I think we've honored Ben's joke enough already.

iggldiggl 5y ago
> What I think really makes the most sense is just global time - UTC everywhere. Yes, I've seen the args against it and I think it would all be a lot more adaptable. So more than half of the planet has "midnight" (i.e. the change of the calendar date because it's 00:00 UTC) happening during waking hours and each solar day is being split into two calendar days? No thank you.

TheSmiddy 5y ago

As a South Australian I like that both our times are offensive so we can just split the difference and finally get an on the hour timezone like everywhere should be. Anywhere else and I'm pro summer time all the time.

adolph 5y ago

Like the sibling comment, I'm against moving clocks around. I used to ease my way into it by not changing clocks until keeping track of old time and new time got to be a hassle. Now-a-days my org does DR activation a few days before and reactivates when the time changes so I'm kind of resetting sleep that Sunday anyway.

fullstop 5y ago

Move it mid-way and forget about it.

JohnFen 5y ago

My preference is that we just stay on standard time permanently -- when it's noon, the sun should be at (or near, given time zones) the highest point it's going to get that day. But I think getting rid of the time change is a bigger deal, and I'll accept daylight savings time as the permanent one if that will help us to more quickly end the time change.