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The article focuses on forcing USB-C ports (popular), but the proposal also unbundles chargers from products like cell phones (unpopular). Apple and several ot

The article focuses on forcing USB-C ports (popular), but the proposal also unbundles chargers from products like cell phones (unpopular). Apple and several other vendors already unbundled chargers from their boxes with mixed reception. Will be interesting to see how this proposal is received when people realize it means they’ll be purchasing chargers separately.

kylecordes 5y ago
Although I think generally a regulation to get a handle on port proliferation can be very helpful and pro-consumer, inevitably consumers will primarily blame phone manufacturers greed as the reason they don’t get a charger in the box anymore.
reeealloc 5y ago
Presumably unbundled chargers will be fine with USB-C on everything. It's not proprietary like Apple's chargers and easy to find.
- ZekeSulastin 5y ago
  … but Apple’s chargers have been USB on the charger side for ages (previously USB-A, currently USB-C). The easy availability of chargers that work with the phones did little to stop the complaints when they were unbundled.
  - zepolen 5y ago
    One needs a charger and a cable to charge a phone, so even if you can use the bricks, you'd still wouldn't be able to use existing cables.
- sbuk 5y ago
  What is proprietary about Apples chargers? They sell USB-A and USB-C wall warts, and their devices happily charge on non-Apple chargers. Their laptop chargers are USB-C and have been for some time. I charge my MBP from a Lenovo power brick. The only proprietary part is the lightning connector.
  - zepolen 5y ago
    > What is proprietary about Apples chargers? > The only proprietary part is the lightning connector. > I charge my MBP from a Lenovo power brick Way to avoid the issue at hand, can you charge your iPhone using your Android charger/cable? Laptop chargers aren't the problem, phone chargers are. As you saw, USB-C solved the problems for laptops, it's about time we solve it for phones too.
    - zepto 5y ago
      You can certainly charge an iPhone using an android charger.
      - ewidar 5y ago
        We're talking with no adapters here, as in you have a single plain usb-c charger for all your phones.
        wutbrodo 5y ago
        Why feed the trolls? It's plainly obvious to everyone here that "charge X with Y" doesn't by default include special adapters or connectors.
        zepto 5y ago
        Not really. The biggest claim is that this measure will reduce e-waste, but that’s a red-herring since the e-waste is in the charger not the cable, and chargers are already interchangeable.
        rhino369 5y ago
        Not if the cable is built into the power adapter. But if the power adapter just has a USB-C port, then you can charge it using the cable that comes in the iphone box.
    - sbuk 5y ago
      To answer the question, with a usb-c/micro usb cable? No, obviously not. With a Google/Samsung/Anker manufactured wall-wart? Yes! Android "chargers" aren't a thing that I'm aware of with USB-C, just with micro usb, which would be pointless, because the proposed law would make those redundant anyway. When was the last charger sold with a built in cable? And honestly, why is carrying 2 cables such a hardship? I agree that USB-C would be more convenient, but the bluster that is made every time this "issue" comes up really is over the top. Look at it this way; the argument goes that having Lightning cables produces e-waste. Changing to USB-C will render existing Lighting cables useless, thereby producing significantly more e-waste! At this stage both arguments are redundant. As to being labelled a 'troll'; the OP made a factually incorrect statement. I questioned, genuinely, other than the cable, what was proprietary about wall-warts and charging bricks currently made by Apple?
Invictus0 5y ago
Clearly these lawmakers don't understand that USBC cables are not readily interchangeable from one device to another. I don't even blame them, the USB foundation made the mother of all marketing blunders with this standard.
- diffeomorphism 5y ago
  For charging? They pretty much are. For everything else? Maybe with somewhat reduced speed/features but good enough.
  - HPsquared 5y ago
    Do they all support the high voltage modes? USB PD goes up to 20V/5A (100W). https://www.cui.com/blog/usb-type-c-pd-and-pps#usb-power-delivery https://www.cui.com/blog/usb-type-c-pd-and-pps#usb-power-del...
    - doikor 5y ago
      Yes. The A4 and A9 (A1 and A19 are ground) are the only pins that transmit power. Putting 20V/5A through the copper is not a problem even for the cheapest cable. edit: Ok looking at the other reply with the link to the google engineers stuff some have messed up the A5 (configuration channel) pin and thus the negotiation for giving more power fails and just defaults to normal levels that are safe for any device.
      - HPsquared 5y ago
        Sure the wire can almost certainly handle it, but are the contacts always going to be able to handle 5A? They are very small after all, and not treated very nicely. Not sure how it's handled by the protocol, but I've known cables to get hot due to contact resistance.
    - lovemenot 5y ago
      Yes, and if approved USB PD EPR (extended power range) proposal, will take it to 240 Watts over USB-C connectors. This moves USB close to the domain in which government regulation has long been necessary for safety reasons. It may be the case that the EU believes a standard domestic DC power supply is imminent and the EU believes PD (EPR) over USB-C meets the need. If so, that would make sense, and I am pleased to see the EU trying to get ahead to standardise and remove risk from vendors as well as consumers. By analogy, California had no natural right to export its CAFE automotive regulations. Yet CA had the foresight to cause that to happen anyway. Bravo.
bognition 5y ago
I understand why unbundling chargers from devices is unpopular, especially as charging cables move from USB-A to USB-C but honestly its the right call. I currently have more than a dozen USB-A plugs (wall warts) lying around and who knows how many more I've already thrown away. Not once have I purchased a device that used USB-A and needed to buy a wall wart for it. I will have to buy a few USB-C wall warts but i wont buy a dozen of them.
- moviuro 5y ago
  USB-A to USB-C cables are a thing.
giancarlostoro 5y ago
My only thought is what will happen when someone invents a new charger that is significantly superior to what currently exists.
- goalieca 5y ago
  Like wireless charging pads?
  - rojcyk 5y ago
    Probably not, Gian said superior
  - giancarlostoro 5y ago
    Unless those transfer data and charge as quickly I dont see that being the case, I mean moreso in the case of actual charging cables. Apple dropped the ball on their magsafe wireless charger by not including a wall plug and charging $40 for something a lot of people couldn’t use. Some of the Amazon reviews are people who think its a counterfeit.
    - goalieca 5y ago
      Airdrop transfers data at full wifi speed and I’m sure we could make a universal standard for that. The charging pads go as high as 15 watts right now. I’m certain we will see more improvements in the future.
      - giancarlostoro 5y ago
        You gotta consider what the EU is doing, it's not all about Apple, they want everything uniform.
        goalieca 5y ago
        Yeah and monocultures are generally bad. If they want to Fix things then invest in open standards and working groups and file some RFCs that compel people to switch. Micro-dictating things aren’t the way if no harm is being done to the public. This is more about convenience.
cnst 5y ago
Before Covid, every booth at every trade show would give you a free wall charger. Some of them were just 1-port 1A 5W throwaway, but also some better stuff, too. I can't imagine buying a charger together with the phone is a thing. You either lose them nonstop, or you have so many of them you don't need anymore.
- kylecordes 5y ago
  Yet I threw away many such throwaway-grade chargers, and use the one that came with my Pixel phone, because it delivers a much faster charge. If we all shift the buying the wall charger separately, hopefully something can be done about the wide variety of incompatible fast-ish charging systems. Rather than everyone revert to the lowest common standard of a very slow charge.
  - cnst 5y ago
    Isn't slow charging actually better for the phone? I prefer to slow change even if the phone supports fast charging — I wish it was easier to do by having a setting instead of having to use incompatible charger and/or cable. The stop limit at 80% should also be made available as a setting, too.
wutbrodo 5y ago
The unpopularity seems a little shortsighted. I have no clue where my Galaxy S's included phone charger is, because using USB-C means I already have a dozen appropriate cables sitting around. I think at the moment I use the charger from my previous laptop to charge it. It's just a shift in framing. To use a silly example, you don't expect a phone to ship with a generator: an electricity hookup is a general piece of infrastructure that a user can be expected to have. In a world full of mandated USB-C-compatible devices, having a single commodity cable slots much more cleanly into "infra you're expected to have already" than "hidden tax on buying a new phone" (Apple's strategy)

kylecordes 5y ago

Although I think generally a regulation to get a handle on port proliferation can be very helpful and pro-consumer, inevitably consumers will primarily blame phone manufacturers greed as the reason they don’t get a charger in the box anymore.

reeealloc 5y ago

Presumably unbundled chargers will be fine with USB-C on everything. It's not proprietary like Apple's chargers and easy to find.

ZekeSulastin 5y ago
… but Apple’s chargers have been USB on the charger side for ages (previously USB-A, currently USB-C). The easy availability of chargers that work with the phones did little to stop the complaints when they were unbundled.
- zepolen 5y ago
  One needs a charger and a cable to charge a phone, so even if you can use the bricks, you'd still wouldn't be able to use existing cables.
sbuk 5y ago
What is proprietary about Apples chargers? They sell USB-A and USB-C wall warts, and their devices happily charge on non-Apple chargers. Their laptop chargers are USB-C and have been for some time. I charge my MBP from a Lenovo power brick. The only proprietary part is the lightning connector.
- zepolen 5y ago
  > What is proprietary about Apples chargers? > The only proprietary part is the lightning connector. > I charge my MBP from a Lenovo power brick Way to avoid the issue at hand, can you charge your iPhone using your Android charger/cable? Laptop chargers aren't the problem, phone chargers are. As you saw, USB-C solved the problems for laptops, it's about time we solve it for phones too.
  - zepto 5y ago
    You can certainly charge an iPhone using an android charger.
    - ewidar 5y ago
      We're talking with no adapters here, as in you have a single plain usb-c charger for all your phones.
      - wutbrodo 5y ago
        Why feed the trolls? It's plainly obvious to everyone here that "charge X with Y" doesn't by default include special adapters or connectors.
        zepto 5y ago
        Not really. The biggest claim is that this measure will reduce e-waste, but that’s a red-herring since the e-waste is in the charger not the cable, and chargers are already interchangeable.
      - rhino369 5y ago
        Not if the cable is built into the power adapter. But if the power adapter just has a USB-C port, then you can charge it using the cable that comes in the iphone box.
  - sbuk 5y ago
    To answer the question, with a usb-c/micro usb cable? No, obviously not. With a Google/Samsung/Anker manufactured wall-wart? Yes! Android "chargers" aren't a thing that I'm aware of with USB-C, just with micro usb, which would be pointless, because the proposed law would make those redundant anyway. When was the last charger sold with a built in cable? And honestly, why is carrying 2 cables such a hardship? I agree that USB-C would be more convenient, but the bluster that is made every time this "issue" comes up really is over the top. Look at it this way; the argument goes that having Lightning cables produces e-waste. Changing to USB-C will render existing Lighting cables useless, thereby producing significantly more e-waste! At this stage both arguments are redundant. As to being labelled a 'troll'; the OP made a factually incorrect statement. I questioned, genuinely, other than the cable, what was proprietary about wall-warts and charging bricks currently made by Apple?

Invictus0 5y ago

Clearly these lawmakers don't understand that USBC cables are not readily interchangeable from one device to another. I don't even blame them, the USB foundation made the mother of all marketing blunders with this standard.

diffeomorphism 5y ago
For charging? They pretty much are. For everything else? Maybe with somewhat reduced speed/features but good enough.
- HPsquared 5y ago
  Do they all support the high voltage modes? USB PD goes up to 20V/5A (100W). https://www.cui.com/blog/usb-type-c-pd-and-pps#usb-power-delivery https://www.cui.com/blog/usb-type-c-pd-and-pps#usb-power-del...
  - doikor 5y ago
    Yes. The A4 and A9 (A1 and A19 are ground) are the only pins that transmit power. Putting 20V/5A through the copper is not a problem even for the cheapest cable. edit: Ok looking at the other reply with the link to the google engineers stuff some have messed up the A5 (configuration channel) pin and thus the negotiation for giving more power fails and just defaults to normal levels that are safe for any device.
    - HPsquared 5y ago
      Sure the wire can almost certainly handle it, but are the contacts always going to be able to handle 5A? They are very small after all, and not treated very nicely. Not sure how it's handled by the protocol, but I've known cables to get hot due to contact resistance.
  - lovemenot 5y ago
    Yes, and if approved USB PD EPR (extended power range) proposal, will take it to 240 Watts over USB-C connectors. This moves USB close to the domain in which government regulation has long been necessary for safety reasons. It may be the case that the EU believes a standard domestic DC power supply is imminent and the EU believes PD (EPR) over USB-C meets the need. If so, that would make sense, and I am pleased to see the EU trying to get ahead to standardise and remove risk from vendors as well as consumers. By analogy, California had no natural right to export its CAFE automotive regulations. Yet CA had the foresight to cause that to happen anyway. Bravo.

bognition 5y ago

I understand why unbundling chargers from devices is unpopular, especially as charging cables move from USB-A to USB-C but honestly its the right call. I currently have more than a dozen USB-A plugs (wall warts) lying around and who knows how many more I've already thrown away. Not once have I purchased a device that used USB-A and needed to buy a wall wart for it. I will have to buy a few USB-C wall warts but i wont buy a dozen of them.

moviuro 5y ago
USB-A to USB-C cables are a thing.

giancarlostoro 5y ago

My only thought is what will happen when someone invents a new charger that is significantly superior to what currently exists.

goalieca 5y ago
Like wireless charging pads?
- rojcyk 5y ago
  Probably not, Gian said superior
- giancarlostoro 5y ago
  Unless those transfer data and charge as quickly I dont see that being the case, I mean moreso in the case of actual charging cables. Apple dropped the ball on their magsafe wireless charger by not including a wall plug and charging $40 for something a lot of people couldn’t use. Some of the Amazon reviews are people who think its a counterfeit.
  - goalieca 5y ago
    Airdrop transfers data at full wifi speed and I’m sure we could make a universal standard for that. The charging pads go as high as 15 watts right now. I’m certain we will see more improvements in the future.
    - giancarlostoro 5y ago
      You gotta consider what the EU is doing, it's not all about Apple, they want everything uniform.
      - goalieca 5y ago
        Yeah and monocultures are generally bad. If they want to Fix things then invest in open standards and working groups and file some RFCs that compel people to switch. Micro-dictating things aren’t the way if no harm is being done to the public. This is more about convenience.

cnst 5y ago

Before Covid, every booth at every trade show would give you a free wall charger. Some of them were just 1-port 1A 5W throwaway, but also some better stuff, too. I can't imagine buying a charger together with the phone is a thing. You either lose them nonstop, or you have so many of them you don't need anymore.

kylecordes 5y ago
Yet I threw away many such throwaway-grade chargers, and use the one that came with my Pixel phone, because it delivers a much faster charge. If we all shift the buying the wall charger separately, hopefully something can be done about the wide variety of incompatible fast-ish charging systems. Rather than everyone revert to the lowest common standard of a very slow charge.
- cnst 5y ago
  Isn't slow charging actually better for the phone? I prefer to slow change even if the phone supports fast charging — I wish it was easier to do by having a setting instead of having to use incompatible charger and/or cable. The stop limit at 80% should also be made available as a setting, too.

wutbrodo 5y ago

The unpopularity seems a little shortsighted. I have no clue where my Galaxy S's included phone charger is, because using USB-C means I already have a dozen appropriate cables sitting around. I think at the moment I use the charger from my previous laptop to charge it. It's just a shift in framing. To use a silly example, you don't expect a phone to ship with a generator: an electricity hookup is a general piece of infrastructure that a user can be expected to have. In a world full of mandated USB-C-compatible devices, having a single commodity cable slots much more cleanly into "infra you're expected to have already" than "hidden tax on buying a new phone" (Apple's strategy)