6 ms·

Maybe we should stop doing business with countries that allow slavery for any reason including punishment for a crime.

by literallyaduck 5y ago

erellsworth 5y ago
If we did that, we'd have to stop doing business with ourselves.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  I think it's likely GP was explicitly targetting the USA with that comment.
  - z3ncyberpunk 5y ago
    Where no nationally sanctioned slavery exists... Got it.
    - user-the-name 5y ago
      ...except for the case of prisoners, who are explicitly excluded.
      - exhilaration 5y ago
        Why the downvotes? Have you folks not read the 13th Amendment? Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, EXCEPT AS PUNISHMENT FOR CRIME whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
        dvtrn 5y ago
        Once again the prison exemption is completely forgotten about in a discussion of slavery.
        t-3 5y ago
        It's not forgotten, just conveniently ignored. Criminals are not afforded human status to many people, which makes political and racial criminilization such a valuable tool for government (ie. Nixon, Kissinger et al for a clear expression of this mentality).
        dvtrn 5y ago
        It's not forgotten, just conveniently ignored. It was with a balled up fist, covered up in a velvet glove that I described the phenomenon as "forgotten" because you're completely correct with this, IMO. It absolutely does get flatly ignored for convenient (but nonetheless ethically atrocious) politicization of criminality.
        deegles 5y ago
        If you want to have a bad day watch this documentary about the 13th amendment and slavery in the prison-industrial complex. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_(film)
        CountDrewku 5y ago
        So every country allows slavery? I agree there are problems with our prison system but that is not the same thing as slavery. It doesn't meet the legal definition at all and sure you can make comparisons but it's not really morally the same either.
        dvtrn 5y ago
        I agree there are problems with our prison system but that is not the same thing as slavery. The actual text of 13A makes involuntary servitude and or slavery a specific statutory exemption to the abolition of slavery. How can one read it, then say it's "not the same thing"? I wasn't aware that the merits and table stakes of this particular discussion was whether or not other countries permitted slavery, when several grandparent comments ago, it was established that the criticism was levied against the United States-in a discussion about actions taken by two corporations that exist in the United States? Is the whataboutism regarding other countries and their statutory frameworks on slavery really relevant here?
    - tsimionescu 5y ago
      Where an explicit exemption exists for slavery as punishment for a crime (often called forced labor in modern jargon, but explicitly considered slavery in the 13th amendment).
- Ekaros 5y ago
  Small sacrifice I say. The people there deserve it.
  - Cuuugi 5y ago
    Some do, some don't. Not all laws are ethical, and not all ethics are lawful. I think you know that though.
  - Afton 5y ago
    Ah revenge, the noblest of reasons for doing shitty things to people
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
vorpalhex 5y ago
They could at least stop profiting from companies who openly engage in slavery and genocide.
ishjoh 5y ago
What would you propose we do with people who commit violent crimes and who are likely to commit them again?
- InitialLastName 5y ago
  If any sort of majority of our prison population had committed violent crimes, and we had no evidence of other ways to handle people than enslaving them, you might have a point. As it is, using prison populations to provide lower-cost-than-otherwise-legal labor for private corporations creates a huge mountain of perverse incentives.
  - ryan93 5y ago
    The vast majority of people in prison could have trivially avoided being there.
    - t-3 5y ago
      Yeah, they could have just chosen to be born white or rich! /s
      - ryan93 5y ago
        Murder is understandable if you're black and or poor. /s
        jamincan 5y ago
        How many people in the US prison population committed violent crimes?
        ryan93 5y ago
        A substantial fraction. people way overestimate how much of it is just drugs. Of course most violent crimes like domestic abuse and rape dont lead to prison sentences
jussij 5y ago
Unfortunately money has always spoken louder than morals and given enough money almost anything can be justified.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
AndyMcConachie 5y ago
USA has legalized slavery so long as the person has been convicted of a crime. Want to hire some slaves for call center work? https://unicor.gov/ContactCenterVideo.aspx https://unicor.gov/ContactCenterVideo.aspx They've also got slaves fighting fires in CA. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/07/california-inmate-firefighters/619567/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/07/califor... Want some slave milk? https://unicor.gov/Product.aspx?idProduct=281 https://unicor.gov/Product.aspx?idProduct=281
omegaBroom 5y ago
How is prisoners working for basically free any different?

Maybe we should stop doing business with countries that allow slavery for any reason including punishment for a crime.

erellsworth 5y ago

If we did that, we'd have to stop doing business with ourselves.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tsimionescu 5y ago
I think it's likely GP was explicitly targetting the USA with that comment.
- z3ncyberpunk 5y ago
  Where no nationally sanctioned slavery exists... Got it.
  - user-the-name 5y ago
    ...except for the case of prisoners, who are explicitly excluded.
    - exhilaration 5y ago
      Why the downvotes? Have you folks not read the 13th Amendment? Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, EXCEPT AS PUNISHMENT FOR CRIME whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
      - dvtrn 5y ago
        Once again the prison exemption is completely forgotten about in a discussion of slavery.
        t-3 5y ago
        It's not forgotten, just conveniently ignored. Criminals are not afforded human status to many people, which makes political and racial criminilization such a valuable tool for government (ie. Nixon, Kissinger et al for a clear expression of this mentality).
        dvtrn 5y ago
        It's not forgotten, just conveniently ignored. It was with a balled up fist, covered up in a velvet glove that I described the phenomenon as "forgotten" because you're completely correct with this, IMO. It absolutely does get flatly ignored for convenient (but nonetheless ethically atrocious) politicization of criminality.
      - deegles 5y ago
        If you want to have a bad day watch this documentary about the 13th amendment and slavery in the prison-industrial complex. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_(film)
        CountDrewku 5y ago
        So every country allows slavery? I agree there are problems with our prison system but that is not the same thing as slavery. It doesn't meet the legal definition at all and sure you can make comparisons but it's not really morally the same either.
        dvtrn 5y ago
        I agree there are problems with our prison system but that is not the same thing as slavery. The actual text of 13A makes involuntary servitude and or slavery a specific statutory exemption to the abolition of slavery. How can one read it, then say it's "not the same thing"? I wasn't aware that the merits and table stakes of this particular discussion was whether or not other countries permitted slavery, when several grandparent comments ago, it was established that the criticism was levied against the United States-in a discussion about actions taken by two corporations that exist in the United States? Is the whataboutism regarding other countries and their statutory frameworks on slavery really relevant here?
  - tsimionescu 5y ago
    Where an explicit exemption exists for slavery as punishment for a crime (often called forced labor in modern jargon, but explicitly considered slavery in the 13th amendment).
Ekaros 5y ago
Small sacrifice I say. The people there deserve it.
- Cuuugi 5y ago
  Some do, some don't. Not all laws are ethical, and not all ethics are lawful. I think you know that though.
- Afton 5y ago
  Ah revenge, the noblest of reasons for doing shitty things to people
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

vorpalhex 5y ago

They could at least stop profiting from companies who openly engage in slavery and genocide.

ishjoh 5y ago

What would you propose we do with people who commit violent crimes and who are likely to commit them again?

InitialLastName 5y ago
If any sort of majority of our prison population had committed violent crimes, and we had no evidence of other ways to handle people than enslaving them, you might have a point. As it is, using prison populations to provide lower-cost-than-otherwise-legal labor for private corporations creates a huge mountain of perverse incentives.
- ryan93 5y ago
  The vast majority of people in prison could have trivially avoided being there.
  - t-3 5y ago
    Yeah, they could have just chosen to be born white or rich! /s
    - ryan93 5y ago
      Murder is understandable if you're black and or poor. /s
      - jamincan 5y ago
        How many people in the US prison population committed violent crimes?
        ryan93 5y ago
        A substantial fraction. people way overestimate how much of it is just drugs. Of course most violent crimes like domestic abuse and rape dont lead to prison sentences

jussij 5y ago

Unfortunately money has always spoken louder than morals and given enough money almost anything can be justified.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

AndyMcConachie 5y ago

USA has legalized slavery so long as the person has been convicted of a crime. Want to hire some slaves for call center work? https://unicor.gov/ContactCenterVideo.aspx https://unicor.gov/ContactCenterVideo.aspx They've also got slaves fighting fires in CA. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/07/california-inmate-firefighters/619567/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/07/califor... Want some slave milk? https://unicor.gov/Product.aspx?idProduct=281 https://unicor.gov/Product.aspx?idProduct=281

omegaBroom 5y ago

How is prisoners working for basically free any different?