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That makes sense. Why would you do business ever again with someone who intentionally breached a contract, publicly smeared you with a calculated negative PR c

That makes sense. Why would you do business ever again with someone who intentionally breached a contract, publicly smeared you with a calculated negative PR campaign and then sued you? After all this you offer them to allow Fortnite back if they reverse what they've done that breached the contract. Instead, they: - Reject the offer - Carry on smearing you - Lose the court case - Sweeney says they wouldn’t release iOS version with the pricing still being the same - Then they decide to do a PR stunt publicly sending a letter and ask to get back into App Store, while hinting they plan to toy with the courts ruling by attempting to put an in-app payment button that mimics Apple’s IAP And now they play a victim that they're not allowed back in to the App Store because they have no other avenue and they lost the court case. Tell me again why would _you_ do business with anyone like that?

onion2k 5y ago
Tell me again why would _you_ do business with anyone like that? me looking at the massive pile of money fortnite generates Yes.
- smiley1437 5y ago
  > Tell me again why would _you_ do business with anyone like that? > me looking at the massive pile of money fortnite generates Yes. Even if it risks your future earnings of literally hundreds of billions of dollars? Apple made about 100 million (0.1 billion) from Fortnite. A lot of money, to be sure. https://fortune.com/2021/05/19/apple-fortnite-epic-games-100-million-revenue-app-store/ https://fortune.com/2021/05/19/apple-fortnite-epic-games-100... But 2020 App store gross revenue was 72 billion, 30% of that is 21 billion and it's growing rapidly. https://www.statista.com/statistics/296226/annual-apple-app-store-revenue/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/296226/annual-apple-app-... Making another 0.1 billion to risk losing hundreds of billions in the future seems like a poor strategy.
  - jfoster 5y ago
    Your premise seems to be that Epic being back on the app store increases the risk of change for Apple, but I would argue that making some degree of peace with Epic definitely decreases the risk of change for Apple. The only way I can rationalise Apple not allowing them back on is that Apple would like for that to be part of a settlement agreement.
    - smiley1437 5y ago
      Apple was 'at peace' with Epic before, right up until they got stabbed in the back with the hidden alternative payment option snuck into the game. Fool me once, shame on you.
- turdnagel 5y ago
  I'm sure Fortnite IAP would generate good money for Apple, but it's not enough to justify giving up the control they want to keep, rightly or wrongly.
jjordan 5y ago
I think this just highlights the problem inherent in allowing Apple to be the sole arbiter of what can run on a device you paid for. I should be able to easily install apps that Apple hasn't approved, or in this case, has a legal beef with the company in question.
2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
It's complicated. Right now Apple makes $0 from Fortnite, if they allow them back they will at least get something. Don't let emotions get in the way of business- there is still money to be made. This feels petty on Apple's part unless they are using this to send a message to anyone else who wants to sue them.
- isatty 5y ago
  I’m fairly certain this was calculated. Someone crunched the numbers and included this into the equation and sticking it to epic came on top. This isn’t a purely emotional decision even though it seems that way.
- criddell 5y ago
  The landscape is changing so fast that Apple probably will lose control of their app store in the not too distant future. Despite still being twice as large as iOS, the Android ecosystem isn't doing very well. If Apple isn't a monopolist today and trends continue, it's only a matter of time before it unquestionably is. At that point they aren't going to be able to dictate terms any longer.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
    > If Apple isn't a monopolist today and trends continue, it's only a matter of time before it unquestionably is. That's exactly what the judge said. > In sum, given the totality of the record, and its underdeveloped state, while the Court can conclude that Apple exercises market power in the mobile gaming market, the Court cannot conclude that Apple’s market power reaches the status of monopoly power in the mobile gaming market. That said, the evidence does suggest that Apple is near the precipice of substantial market power, or monopoly power, with its considerable market share. Apple is only saved by the fact that its share is not higher, that competitors from related submarkets are making inroads into the mobile gaming submarket, and, perhaps, because plaintiff did not focus on this topic.
- MarcoZavala 5y ago
  I have such a valuable reply and you'll never see it because dang is a huge faggot who shadowbans people.
spywaregorilla 5y ago
I'm ok with Apple not letting Epic on the App Store so long as Apple doesn't forbid me from doing a private business exchange with Epic on my device.
- mrtksn 5y ago
  > Apple doesn't forbid me from doing a private business exchange with Epic on my device I don't think Apple can do that. What Apple can do, is to not allow Epic to use their distribution service, known as AppStore. What you install on your iDevice is your own business and Apple cannot do anything about it. That's why jailbreaking your device is completely legal, you own your device you paid for and you can do whatever you like with it. Epic can develop a jailbreak or use a jailbreak distribution service to distribute their Apps. You can hack your phone and if Epic's licensing allows that, you can install Epic games yourself. You can hack your phone, install a special distribution of Android to you iPhone and install it from there. Apple can't do anything about it. Not easy as tapping a button you say? Well Apple is not obligated to make any of this easy. They make it very clear that they support app installation through Apple AppStore and and no point they promise to help you out to install apps through any other means. If you want to do that, you will have to do it without the help of Apple. Or you know, don't buy Apple devices if the arrangement doesn't work for you.
  - mattnewton 5y ago
    This seems to be overstating Apple’s position as neutral here, they are actively hostile to jailbreakers, and Apple will try to stop you any way they can.
    - mrtksn 5y ago
      I agree. The practical result of the current situation is that Apple can choose what apps most people can install into the their devices but this needs to be framed correctly because Apple actually targets the developers and not the users when they practically control the app distribution to the devices they sold. Why is it important? Because when described incorrectly, solutions will also be incorrect. Apple doesn’t control it because Tim Cook gets hard when doesn’t allow some apps into the phones of the customers. They do it because they want to be paid for the intellectual properties and opportunities they provide, they also want to be able to continue selling iPhones at premium prices and in this competitive environment they want to be able to control the working of the devices so to provide premium experience.
maxsilver 5y ago
The problem with this logic, is that Apple isn't really a "business" in this case. Epic and Apple aren't really "business partners". Apple is an unregulated privately-owned quasi-government entity with none of the responsibilities or checks on authority that a real government has. You can sue the Post Office, lose your case, and know they can't retaliate by stealing all your mail forever. You can sue the Department of Labour, lose a case, and still have the right to hire employees in the future. You can sue the Fire Department, lose a case, and still reasonably trust they won't burn down your house. You can sue your local Power Company, lose your case, and still trust that they can't unilaterally ban you from ever buying Electricity again. But you can't ever sue Apple, over anything, ever, no matter how evil Apple is, no matter how heinous Apple's activity may be. Because no matter how valid or correct your complain is, no matter what happens, they'll just black-bag your entire digital existence in retaliation. Apple is acting like a Government, Apple is ruling like a Government, but Apple has none of the oversight or accountability we'd demand from any reasonable Government. Folks are thinking of Apple like it's just a video game console, when the more apt comparison is Comcast or AT&T. Apple shouldn't be allowed to control what does or does not live in the App Store, for the same reason that Comcast shouldn't even be allowed to decide what websites or services you do/don't use.
- Razengan 5y ago
  > Apple is an unregulated privately-owned quasi-government entity JFC Apple allows 3rd-party shit on Macs. The App Store is a store, just like Google Play and Steam etc. And iPhones and iPads are a platform, just like the PlayStation, Xbox, or Nintendo Switch etc. Show us one instance where someone violated the T&C of any other store or platform and were still allowed to continue to do business there.
  - maxsilver 5y ago
    > iPhones and iPads are a platform, just like the PlayStation, Xbox, or Nintendo Switch etc. Thank you for perfectly illustrating my point. : Folks are thinking of Apple like it's just a video game console, when the more apt comparison is Comcast or AT&T.

onion2k 5y ago

Tell me again why would _you_ do business with anyone like that? me looking at the massive pile of money fortnite generates Yes.

smiley1437 5y ago
> Tell me again why would _you_ do business with anyone like that? > me looking at the massive pile of money fortnite generates Yes. Even if it risks your future earnings of literally hundreds of billions of dollars? Apple made about 100 million (0.1 billion) from Fortnite. A lot of money, to be sure. https://fortune.com/2021/05/19/apple-fortnite-epic-games-100-million-revenue-app-store/ https://fortune.com/2021/05/19/apple-fortnite-epic-games-100... But 2020 App store gross revenue was 72 billion, 30% of that is 21 billion and it's growing rapidly. https://www.statista.com/statistics/296226/annual-apple-app-store-revenue/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/296226/annual-apple-app-... Making another 0.1 billion to risk losing hundreds of billions in the future seems like a poor strategy.
- jfoster 5y ago
  Your premise seems to be that Epic being back on the app store increases the risk of change for Apple, but I would argue that making some degree of peace with Epic definitely decreases the risk of change for Apple. The only way I can rationalise Apple not allowing them back on is that Apple would like for that to be part of a settlement agreement.
  - smiley1437 5y ago
    Apple was 'at peace' with Epic before, right up until they got stabbed in the back with the hidden alternative payment option snuck into the game. Fool me once, shame on you.
turdnagel 5y ago
I'm sure Fortnite IAP would generate good money for Apple, but it's not enough to justify giving up the control they want to keep, rightly or wrongly.

jjordan 5y ago

I think this just highlights the problem inherent in allowing Apple to be the sole arbiter of what can run on a device you paid for. I should be able to easily install apps that Apple hasn't approved, or in this case, has a legal beef with the company in question.

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago

It's complicated. Right now Apple makes $0 from Fortnite, if they allow them back they will at least get something. Don't let emotions get in the way of business- there is still money to be made. This feels petty on Apple's part unless they are using this to send a message to anyone else who wants to sue them.

isatty 5y ago
I’m fairly certain this was calculated. Someone crunched the numbers and included this into the equation and sticking it to epic came on top. This isn’t a purely emotional decision even though it seems that way.
criddell 5y ago
The landscape is changing so fast that Apple probably will lose control of their app store in the not too distant future. Despite still being twice as large as iOS, the Android ecosystem isn't doing very well. If Apple isn't a monopolist today and trends continue, it's only a matter of time before it unquestionably is. At that point they aren't going to be able to dictate terms any longer.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
  > If Apple isn't a monopolist today and trends continue, it's only a matter of time before it unquestionably is. That's exactly what the judge said. > In sum, given the totality of the record, and its underdeveloped state, while the Court can conclude that Apple exercises market power in the mobile gaming market, the Court cannot conclude that Apple’s market power reaches the status of monopoly power in the mobile gaming market. That said, the evidence does suggest that Apple is near the precipice of substantial market power, or monopoly power, with its considerable market share. Apple is only saved by the fact that its share is not higher, that competitors from related submarkets are making inroads into the mobile gaming submarket, and, perhaps, because plaintiff did not focus on this topic.
MarcoZavala 5y ago
I have such a valuable reply and you'll never see it because dang is a huge faggot who shadowbans people.

spywaregorilla 5y ago

I'm ok with Apple not letting Epic on the App Store so long as Apple doesn't forbid me from doing a private business exchange with Epic on my device.

mrtksn 5y ago
> Apple doesn't forbid me from doing a private business exchange with Epic on my device I don't think Apple can do that. What Apple can do, is to not allow Epic to use their distribution service, known as AppStore. What you install on your iDevice is your own business and Apple cannot do anything about it. That's why jailbreaking your device is completely legal, you own your device you paid for and you can do whatever you like with it. Epic can develop a jailbreak or use a jailbreak distribution service to distribute their Apps. You can hack your phone and if Epic's licensing allows that, you can install Epic games yourself. You can hack your phone, install a special distribution of Android to you iPhone and install it from there. Apple can't do anything about it. Not easy as tapping a button you say? Well Apple is not obligated to make any of this easy. They make it very clear that they support app installation through Apple AppStore and and no point they promise to help you out to install apps through any other means. If you want to do that, you will have to do it without the help of Apple. Or you know, don't buy Apple devices if the arrangement doesn't work for you.
- mattnewton 5y ago
  This seems to be overstating Apple’s position as neutral here, they are actively hostile to jailbreakers, and Apple will try to stop you any way they can.
  - mrtksn 5y ago
    I agree. The practical result of the current situation is that Apple can choose what apps most people can install into the their devices but this needs to be framed correctly because Apple actually targets the developers and not the users when they practically control the app distribution to the devices they sold. Why is it important? Because when described incorrectly, solutions will also be incorrect. Apple doesn’t control it because Tim Cook gets hard when doesn’t allow some apps into the phones of the customers. They do it because they want to be paid for the intellectual properties and opportunities they provide, they also want to be able to continue selling iPhones at premium prices and in this competitive environment they want to be able to control the working of the devices so to provide premium experience.

maxsilver 5y ago

The problem with this logic, is that Apple isn't really a "business" in this case. Epic and Apple aren't really "business partners". Apple is an unregulated privately-owned quasi-government entity with none of the responsibilities or checks on authority that a real government has. You can sue the Post Office, lose your case, and know they can't retaliate by stealing all your mail forever. You can sue the Department of Labour, lose a case, and still have the right to hire employees in the future. You can sue the Fire Department, lose a case, and still reasonably trust they won't burn down your house. You can sue your local Power Company, lose your case, and still trust that they can't unilaterally ban you from ever buying Electricity again. But you can't ever sue Apple, over anything, ever, no matter how evil Apple is, no matter how heinous Apple's activity may be. Because no matter how valid or correct your complain is, no matter what happens, they'll just black-bag your entire digital existence in retaliation. Apple is acting like a Government, Apple is ruling like a Government, but Apple has none of the oversight or accountability we'd demand from any reasonable Government. Folks are thinking of Apple like it's just a video game console, when the more apt comparison is Comcast or AT&T. Apple shouldn't be allowed to control what does or does not live in the App Store, for the same reason that Comcast shouldn't even be allowed to decide what websites or services you do/don't use.

Razengan 5y ago
> Apple is an unregulated privately-owned quasi-government entity JFC Apple allows 3rd-party shit on Macs. The App Store is a store, just like Google Play and Steam etc. And iPhones and iPads are a platform, just like the PlayStation, Xbox, or Nintendo Switch etc. Show us one instance where someone violated the T&C of any other store or platform and were still allowed to continue to do business there.
- maxsilver 5y ago
  > iPhones and iPads are a platform, just like the PlayStation, Xbox, or Nintendo Switch etc. Thank you for perfectly illustrating my point. : Folks are thinking of Apple like it's just a video game console, when the more apt comparison is Comcast or AT&T.