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Apple made not just a "promise", they made an offer, the judge then asked if Epic wanted it, Epic said no. Now Epic is changing their mind now that the judge r

Apple made not just a "promise", they made an offer, the judge then asked if Epic wanted it, Epic said no. Now Epic is changing their mind now that the judge ruled they did breach the contract, what they were expecting?

28626894 5y ago
Yep. I’m confused. Do people think that Epic won the court case, and are therefore in some position to make demands? The court ruled in favor of Apple on 9 of 10 issues. Epic has proven itself to be a bad faith actor; recall, Epic could have remained in compliance and then sued for the right they just gained, and then implemented it. But they decided to purposefully break the rules they originally agreed to. This is the outcome they knew they would get.
- horsawlarway 5y ago
  I agree that Apple won in court here, but I think they're losing the public perception game pretty badly. I've never been a big Apple fan - and I speak up about it on various forums - up until about two years ago, no one really cared. These last two years... The Anti-Apple sentiment is hitting HARD. Frankly - It was always an abusive company ("my way or the high way" seems like it could be their company motto), but now the products just aren't that good, and it shows. Maybe the M1 devices will buy them some time, lord knows they need it after the cluster fuck of a computer that is the latest 16 macbook pro (work issued, it's the worst laptop I've used in the last 12 years). But the phones are WAY too expensive for what you get - the UI is dissolving into a mess, the laptops are losing all the power user features that got folks interested in the first case, and the privacy-centric "User first" approach they market so hard is visibly turning into a pretty clear charade. My prediction - This is going to be a pyrrhic victory. They're going to fight tooth and nail to hang onto this revenue stream (which is clearly simple rent-seeking behavior), and it's going to taint developer and user opinion across their main market. I personally went from "neutral/negative" on Apple to "Will not touch with a 20' pole - will not do business with or develop for" Even at work - We have a large group of developers now asking to be issued something other than a macbook. I find that pretty damn telling.
  - CharlesW 5y ago
    > …I think they're losing the public perception game pretty badly. Outside of HN and other niche media properties this is an extremely obscure battle. > …now the products just aren't that good, and it shows. Does it though? Apple recently reported an almost-50% YoY increase in iPhone sales. The iPad had its best June quarter in nearly a decade. The Mac set a new June quarter revenue record. The last four quarters have been the Mac's best four quarters ever. Subjectively, Apple products have never been better.
    - horsawlarway 5y ago
      I think it does matter - objectively. It doesn't matter how many consumers you have on your platform, if you don't have content creators you're on life support. Right now, Apple is still middle of the road - The money in their apps ecosystem is holding a lot of developers there, but I think they're royally fucked in every legal district except the US with regards to the current software distribution model. And honestly - that's simply because anti-trust/monopoly regulation in the US is an unfathomable joke at the moment (it helps that we house most of the tech monopolies, so from a nationalistic perspective, I understand that the status quo is making a lot of people a lot of money). So does it matter this quarter? Eh - almost certainly not. Will it matter in 10 years? Almost certainly yes. That said, who knows - Apple is damn good at marketing still, and it's possible they can leverage the M1 machines into a dominant position. --- As for this year - We're seeing consumer spending in electronics up across the board, mostly thanks to incentives from covid (cash infusions, more people using devices for school/work, more people feel stuck at home and consume digital services). And Apple has a good supply chain in place to whether the current chip shortages, pushing consumers to buy products from Apple simply because they're available. Hell, Lenovo revenue is also up 50% in the last year, and Samsung is up nearly 20% this last quarter. Selling digital devices is a good spot to be in during a lockdown of physical spaces. Again, maybe Apple will be able to ride the wave with the M1 devices, but I think extrapolating out from sales during Covid isn't all that meaningful.
    - rchaud 5y ago
      A lot of people claimed BlackBerry was finished in 2009, when it was still reporting record sales and profits. Of course Apple is too big to disappear the way BB did. But a lot of what made Apple products unique is no longer there. Jobs pointed out how OEMs had little brand identity and consistency because of the sheer number of variations of each product. Apple today sells 7 different models of iPhone and 5 different models of iPads. It's on its way.

28626894 5y ago

Yep. I’m confused. Do people think that Epic won the court case, and are therefore in some position to make demands? The court ruled in favor of Apple on 9 of 10 issues. Epic has proven itself to be a bad faith actor; recall, Epic could have remained in compliance and then sued for the right they just gained, and then implemented it. But they decided to purposefully break the rules they originally agreed to. This is the outcome they knew they would get.

horsawlarway 5y ago
I agree that Apple won in court here, but I think they're losing the public perception game pretty badly. I've never been a big Apple fan - and I speak up about it on various forums - up until about two years ago, no one really cared. These last two years... The Anti-Apple sentiment is hitting HARD. Frankly - It was always an abusive company ("my way or the high way" seems like it could be their company motto), but now the products just aren't that good, and it shows. Maybe the M1 devices will buy them some time, lord knows they need it after the cluster fuck of a computer that is the latest 16 macbook pro (work issued, it's the worst laptop I've used in the last 12 years). But the phones are WAY too expensive for what you get - the UI is dissolving into a mess, the laptops are losing all the power user features that got folks interested in the first case, and the privacy-centric "User first" approach they market so hard is visibly turning into a pretty clear charade. My prediction - This is going to be a pyrrhic victory. They're going to fight tooth and nail to hang onto this revenue stream (which is clearly simple rent-seeking behavior), and it's going to taint developer and user opinion across their main market. I personally went from "neutral/negative" on Apple to "Will not touch with a 20' pole - will not do business with or develop for" Even at work - We have a large group of developers now asking to be issued something other than a macbook. I find that pretty damn telling.
- CharlesW 5y ago
  > …I think they're losing the public perception game pretty badly. Outside of HN and other niche media properties this is an extremely obscure battle. > …now the products just aren't that good, and it shows. Does it though? Apple recently reported an almost-50% YoY increase in iPhone sales. The iPad had its best June quarter in nearly a decade. The Mac set a new June quarter revenue record. The last four quarters have been the Mac's best four quarters ever. Subjectively, Apple products have never been better.
  - horsawlarway 5y ago
    I think it does matter - objectively. It doesn't matter how many consumers you have on your platform, if you don't have content creators you're on life support. Right now, Apple is still middle of the road - The money in their apps ecosystem is holding a lot of developers there, but I think they're royally fucked in every legal district except the US with regards to the current software distribution model. And honestly - that's simply because anti-trust/monopoly regulation in the US is an unfathomable joke at the moment (it helps that we house most of the tech monopolies, so from a nationalistic perspective, I understand that the status quo is making a lot of people a lot of money). So does it matter this quarter? Eh - almost certainly not. Will it matter in 10 years? Almost certainly yes. That said, who knows - Apple is damn good at marketing still, and it's possible they can leverage the M1 machines into a dominant position. --- As for this year - We're seeing consumer spending in electronics up across the board, mostly thanks to incentives from covid (cash infusions, more people using devices for school/work, more people feel stuck at home and consume digital services). And Apple has a good supply chain in place to whether the current chip shortages, pushing consumers to buy products from Apple simply because they're available. Hell, Lenovo revenue is also up 50% in the last year, and Samsung is up nearly 20% this last quarter. Selling digital devices is a good spot to be in during a lockdown of physical spaces. Again, maybe Apple will be able to ride the wave with the M1 devices, but I think extrapolating out from sales during Covid isn't all that meaningful.
  - rchaud 5y ago
    A lot of people claimed BlackBerry was finished in 2009, when it was still reporting record sales and profits. Of course Apple is too big to disappear the way BB did. But a lot of what made Apple products unique is no longer there. Jobs pointed out how OEMs had little brand identity and consistency because of the sheer number of variations of each product. Apple today sells 7 different models of iPhone and 5 different models of iPads. It's on its way.