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Some of the examples use grammar I don't quite recognize: "メッセージを送なさい。" "書類を読むの為に開ける" I think I would have said "送りなさい" and "読む為に". Hopefully, Haku is or can b

by Rounin 5y ago

Some of the examples use grammar I don't quite recognize: "メッセージを送なさい。" "書類を読むの為に開ける" I think I would have said "送りなさい" and "読む為に". Hopefully, Haku is or can be made flexible enough to handle that.

numpad0 5y ago
"書類を読むために開ける" sound to me that it follows subject-object-verb model. When I was taught English, early learner materials would contrast the grammatical difference from Japanese as one is SOV and the other is SVO with subjects frequently omitted, but Wikipedia article[1] today mentions Japanese language has "topic-comment" sentence structure, which seems to make sense to me. A more natural form of those sentences would be "メッセージ/文書を送信(Send message/text)" and "書類を開いて読む(open and read document)" or "書類を読み込む(read-ingest document)", than implied imperative "[You] must send message" or "[You] open document for the purpose of reading" which don't feel to me that they follow this topic-comment logical structures. This topic-comment model is also seen in Nadesiko Japanese programming language, as quoted below from "open file" function reference page: > 「ファイル.txt」を開いて、Sに代入。 > Sを表示。 (my attempt at translation:) > "file.txt" be opened, S it assign to. > S be displayed. As clearly seen, the object such as filename or variable are brought up first, then subsequently augmented, with subject simply missing. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_grammar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_grammar 2: https://nadesi.com/v3/doc/index.php?plugin_node%2F%E9%96%8B&show https://nadesi.com/v3/doc/index.php?plugin_node%2F%E9%96%8B&...
wodenokoto 5y ago
> "読む為に" You can’t have suru work on a verb, so the author turns the verb “to read” into a noun by adding the no. The kanji for suru and the lack of a wo kinda hides what is going on. 読むのをする→読むのをしに→読むのを為に→読むの為に For the other one, I agree with you. Basically the only real looking result on google for “送なさい” is this thread and haku’s homepage….

by Rounin 5y ago

numpad0 5y ago

"書類を読むために開ける" sound to me that it follows subject-object-verb model. When I was taught English, early learner materials would contrast the grammatical difference from Japanese as one is SOV and the other is SVO with subjects frequently omitted, but Wikipedia article[1] today mentions Japanese language has "topic-comment" sentence structure, which seems to make sense to me. A more natural form of those sentences would be "メッセージ/文書を送信(Send message/text)" and "書類を開いて読む(open and read document)" or "書類を読み込む(read-ingest document)", than implied imperative "[You] must send message" or "[You] open document for the purpose of reading" which don't feel to me that they follow this topic-comment logical structures. This topic-comment model is also seen in Nadesiko Japanese programming language, as quoted below from "open file" function reference page: > 「ファイル.txt」を開いて、Sに代入。 > Sを表示。 (my attempt at translation:) > "file.txt" be opened, S it assign to. > S be displayed. As clearly seen, the object such as filename or variable are brought up first, then subsequently augmented, with subject simply missing. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_grammar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_grammar 2: https://nadesi.com/v3/doc/index.php?plugin_node%2F%E9%96%8B&show https://nadesi.com/v3/doc/index.php?plugin_node%2F%E9%96%8B&...

wodenokoto 5y ago

> "読む為に" You can’t have suru work on a verb, so the author turns the verb “to read” into a noun by adding the no. The kanji for suru and the lack of a wo kinda hides what is going on. 読むのをする→読むのをしに→読むのを為に→読むの為に For the other one, I agree with you. Basically the only real looking result on google for “送なさい” is this thread and haku’s homepage….