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> the sophistication of their implementation is bound to increase You're right about this, including with backdoors. Electronics from China must be treated as

> the sophistication of their implementation is bound to increase You're right about this, including with backdoors. Electronics from China must be treated as treacherous computing devices that obey the orders of the Chinese Communist Party. If the West was sensible, we simply wouldn't buy any electronics from them.

paul7986 5y ago
Or manufacturer any product from there...why does the world continue to be stupid on China and pump up their economy by having the majority of their goods manufactured there? Its going to continue to bite us and everyone in the butt.
- PontifexMinimus 5y ago
  > why does the world continue to be stupid on China and pump up their economy by having the majority of their goods manufactured there? Because big companies make lots of profits from it, I imagine. > Its going to continue to bite us and everyone in the butt. Yes, unless we change our ways.
  - paul7986 5y ago
    And yet im being downvoted for being negative on China?
    - greyhair 5y ago
      Because you actually use the letters C h i n and a in your post and his replies do not.
- fmajid 5y ago
  Because the supply chain for electronics manufacturing, and many other classes of products, is hard to replicate. Large multinational corporations would love to shift production to Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia or India, where labor is now cheaper than China, but there are logistics obstacles. Apple now manufactures some phones in India, but mostly older models.
  - PontifexMinimus 5y ago
    > Because the supply chain for electronics manufacturing, and many other classes of products, is hard to replicate. Software is eating the world, as Marc Andreessen says. So who controls the software -- including by controlling the hardware the software runs on -- controls the world. This means that every polity that wants to be truly independent needs to control its computing infrastructure, ideally all the layers of the technology stack from chips to social media. So it would be well worth polities such as the USA or EU putting up whatever level of import tariffs (and other measures) it takes to encourage manufacturers to do these things domestically. Not that doing so would be that much more expensive anyway. The cost of low-level assembly line labour per iPhone is probably only a few dollars. I'd guess that building them in the USA would only add $10-20 to the cost.
    - fmajid 5y ago
      Atoms still matter, and there are blue-collar manufacturing skills the US has lost to China, and most of the low-cost labor alternative locales never had in the first place.

paul7986 5y ago

Or manufacturer any product from there...why does the world continue to be stupid on China and pump up their economy by having the majority of their goods manufactured there? Its going to continue to bite us and everyone in the butt.

PontifexMinimus 5y ago
> why does the world continue to be stupid on China and pump up their economy by having the majority of their goods manufactured there? Because big companies make lots of profits from it, I imagine. > Its going to continue to bite us and everyone in the butt. Yes, unless we change our ways.
- paul7986 5y ago
  And yet im being downvoted for being negative on China?
  - greyhair 5y ago
    Because you actually use the letters C h i n and a in your post and his replies do not.
fmajid 5y ago
Because the supply chain for electronics manufacturing, and many other classes of products, is hard to replicate. Large multinational corporations would love to shift production to Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia or India, where labor is now cheaper than China, but there are logistics obstacles. Apple now manufactures some phones in India, but mostly older models.
- PontifexMinimus 5y ago
  > Because the supply chain for electronics manufacturing, and many other classes of products, is hard to replicate. Software is eating the world, as Marc Andreessen says. So who controls the software -- including by controlling the hardware the software runs on -- controls the world. This means that every polity that wants to be truly independent needs to control its computing infrastructure, ideally all the layers of the technology stack from chips to social media. So it would be well worth polities such as the USA or EU putting up whatever level of import tariffs (and other measures) it takes to encourage manufacturers to do these things domestically. Not that doing so would be that much more expensive anyway. The cost of low-level assembly line labour per iPhone is probably only a few dollars. I'd guess that building them in the USA would only add $10-20 to the cost.
  - fmajid 5y ago
    Atoms still matter, and there are blue-collar manufacturing skills the US has lost to China, and most of the low-cost labor alternative locales never had in the first place.