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Similar lists existed within Google for their ("on hold" last I heard) project Dragonfly [0]. I saw a bunch of banned terms like these in the Dragonfly repo bef

Similar lists existed within Google for their ("on hold" last I heard) project Dragonfly [0]. I saw a bunch of banned terms like these in the Dragonfly repo before they hid it from regular employees. It was a very long list. On it were also the names of specific activists and human rights lawyers, including some who'd been disappeared [1] or forcibly confined to mental institutions [2]. My impression is that Sundar was all-in on Dragonfly, and he only rolled it back because of tremendous external and internal pressure. As that pressure abates over time, expect Dragonfly to return. Word of warning for those who trust Google as a defender of digital privacy and human rights. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonfly_(search_engine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonfly_(search_engine) [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/06/un-human-rights-china-missing-lawyer-jiang-tianyong https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/06/un-human-right... [2] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinas-ink-girl-defaced-xi-093000689.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinas-ink-girl-defaced-xi-09...

alias_neo 5y ago
> Word of warning for those who trust Google as a defender of digital privacy and human rights. Surely that is literally nobody? At this stage I would be seriously concerned for anyone who identifies with this description.
- MrWiffles 5y ago
  Surely nobody on HN trusts Google in this way (or any other for that matter), but the referenced comment is useful for educating our less-aware peers (usually those outside our industry), allowing them to come to more informed conclusions on Google. Forewarned is forearmed.
- downWidOutaFite 5y ago
  Considering Google has forfeited a lot of money over many years for resisting Chinese censorship I would say they're more trustworthy on this issue than Apple or Microsoft which have both publicly caved. The remnants of the "Don't be evil" culture is what allowed Dragonfly to be resisted. No such culture exists at Apple or Microsoft.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - galaxyLogic 5y ago
    Yes maybe Google resists the Chinese, but what about Russia? https://www.wired.com/story/russia-apple-google-voting-app-navalny/ https://www.wired.com/story/russia-apple-google-voting-app-n...
  - alias_neo 5y ago
    I hear what you're saying, however, that is exactly the issue. It's remnants, a "vocal minority" within Google using their moral compass to resist. Because it is coming "from the bottom up" it can't be relied on when Google can pull the plug on these people at any point if they resist too much. I can't say much for Apple/Microsoft, but to be safe I would tar them with the same brush.
fmajid 5y ago
It was more clever than that. They tried to reverse-engineer the Great Firewall's block list by running queries from their Chinese office, so they could make a Chinese Censorship-compliant search engine that would work even outside the Great Firewall. As for trust in Google, has anyone actually believed they are benevolent for the last decade or so?

alias_neo 5y ago

> Word of warning for those who trust Google as a defender of digital privacy and human rights. Surely that is literally nobody? At this stage I would be seriously concerned for anyone who identifies with this description.

MrWiffles 5y ago
Surely nobody on HN trusts Google in this way (or any other for that matter), but the referenced comment is useful for educating our less-aware peers (usually those outside our industry), allowing them to come to more informed conclusions on Google. Forewarned is forearmed.
downWidOutaFite 5y ago
Considering Google has forfeited a lot of money over many years for resisting Chinese censorship I would say they're more trustworthy on this issue than Apple or Microsoft which have both publicly caved. The remnants of the "Don't be evil" culture is what allowed Dragonfly to be resisted. No such culture exists at Apple or Microsoft.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- galaxyLogic 5y ago
  Yes maybe Google resists the Chinese, but what about Russia? https://www.wired.com/story/russia-apple-google-voting-app-navalny/ https://www.wired.com/story/russia-apple-google-voting-app-n...
- alias_neo 5y ago
  I hear what you're saying, however, that is exactly the issue. It's remnants, a "vocal minority" within Google using their moral compass to resist. Because it is coming "from the bottom up" it can't be relied on when Google can pull the plug on these people at any point if they resist too much. I can't say much for Apple/Microsoft, but to be safe I would tar them with the same brush.

fmajid 5y ago

It was more clever than that. They tried to reverse-engineer the Great Firewall's block list by running queries from their Chinese office, so they could make a Chinese Censorship-compliant search engine that would work even outside the Great Firewall. As for trust in Google, has anyone actually believed they are benevolent for the last decade or so?