3 ms·

> It's important to note that almost all of the land that cattle are raised on is unsuitable for any other purpose I'm not so sure about that. Brazil is the se

> It's important to note that almost all of the land that cattle are raised on is unsuitable for any other purpose I'm not so sure about that. Brazil is the second largest producer of beef, and there have been huge outcries because large swathes of the Amazon are being cut down to facilitate beef production (as well as crops such as soya - which I should note is mostly used as animal feed - and palm oil). Apparently the soil does soon become unsuitable for even raising cattle, so it does become land unsuitable for other purposes. But it certainly didn't start out that way.

beerandt 5y ago
No- large swathes of land are being cleared because it's one of the few resources available to locals to climb out of poverty. If they weren't cutting it down for beef, they'd be cutting it down for something else, like the palm oil mentioned.
- roflc0ptic 5y ago
  Really moving the goalposts there
- enkid 5y ago
  If it wasn't as economical to do it because you couldn't sell the meat produced that way, less of it would be cut down because they couldn't make money that way. In other words, it's their only resource, but it's only valuable to destroy if there is something they can sell, i.e., meat. (Or palm oil)
  - beerandt 5y ago
    No- this isn't US economics where there's a cost below which land use doesn't make sense for them. These people were cutting and burning these forests just for timber and firewood, and have been for decades. Even in places where it's banned to do so, and they risk jail. A smaller profit margin isn't going to prevent them from utilizing the one resource at their disposal.
  - Spooky23 5y ago
    That’s kind of a wacky argument. It’s like saying that they wouldn’t need money if only these people wouldn’t eat. The fake meat story is a fraud - if you care about pollution, like every other industry yu can regulate how they handle waste products and other operational practices. Fake meat is just a consolidation play, which happens to be the factor that made meat production a horror show in the first place. Instead of cutting down rain forests for pasture, we’ll cut them down for more protein sources to manufacture fake meat. Ditto with palm oil, which will drive some apes to extinction because there is a marketing problem with selling lard and a health problem associated with selling hydrogenated oils.
speeder 5y ago
Most of Brazillian beef came from natural grassland area, "Serrado" Also Pantanal (a kind of swampland of sorts) create some awesome natural pastures, although raising cattle there is harder because of the floods. Amazon Rainforest destruction has much to do with stupidity (the land there is sand actually, destroying the forest to plant ANYTHING there, even soybeans, is stupid idea), logging, illegal land grabbing, and issues related to certain US companies (Cargill in particular is a big offender). Also there a lot of conflict is going on there, including political, that made the destruction faster, including destruction being sped up in name of conservation, for example worldwide media was all happy when a particular logger got arrested, only for the destruction to speed up after his arrest, because the people that kept calling the police on him were actually trying to use the police to push him out so they could squat the land, and indeed they did so, as soon he was kicked out, illegal loggers and miners moved in, and fortified, now THOSE people can't be kicked out because they are heavily armed and the police fears the political fallout of that. Meanwhile the area they squatted had logging sped-up a lot, and trees that previously were being preserved as seed stock got cut down, ruining the management work being done there.
- kickout 5y ago
  Excellent comment.
  - maccard 5y ago
    Except it's not true - all sources say that the primary reason for deforestation in brazil is cattle grazing. Wikipedia [0] has numerous sources that say the exact opposite of what OP has said. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation_of_the_Amazon_rainforest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation_of_the_Amazon_ra...
- ramblenode 5y ago
  According to this paper 70-80% of Brazil's deforestation begins as pasture creation: http://www7.nau.edu/mpcer/direnet/publications/publications_n/files/nepstad_interactions.pdf http://www7.nau.edu/mpcer/direnet/publications/publications_...
ireadfaces 5y ago
Always come with citations.

beerandt 5y ago

No- large swathes of land are being cleared because it's one of the few resources available to locals to climb out of poverty. If they weren't cutting it down for beef, they'd be cutting it down for something else, like the palm oil mentioned.

roflc0ptic 5y ago
Really moving the goalposts there
enkid 5y ago
If it wasn't as economical to do it because you couldn't sell the meat produced that way, less of it would be cut down because they couldn't make money that way. In other words, it's their only resource, but it's only valuable to destroy if there is something they can sell, i.e., meat. (Or palm oil)
- beerandt 5y ago
  No- this isn't US economics where there's a cost below which land use doesn't make sense for them. These people were cutting and burning these forests just for timber and firewood, and have been for decades. Even in places where it's banned to do so, and they risk jail. A smaller profit margin isn't going to prevent them from utilizing the one resource at their disposal.
- Spooky23 5y ago
  That’s kind of a wacky argument. It’s like saying that they wouldn’t need money if only these people wouldn’t eat. The fake meat story is a fraud - if you care about pollution, like every other industry yu can regulate how they handle waste products and other operational practices. Fake meat is just a consolidation play, which happens to be the factor that made meat production a horror show in the first place. Instead of cutting down rain forests for pasture, we’ll cut them down for more protein sources to manufacture fake meat. Ditto with palm oil, which will drive some apes to extinction because there is a marketing problem with selling lard and a health problem associated with selling hydrogenated oils.

speeder 5y ago

Most of Brazillian beef came from natural grassland area, "Serrado" Also Pantanal (a kind of swampland of sorts) create some awesome natural pastures, although raising cattle there is harder because of the floods. Amazon Rainforest destruction has much to do with stupidity (the land there is sand actually, destroying the forest to plant ANYTHING there, even soybeans, is stupid idea), logging, illegal land grabbing, and issues related to certain US companies (Cargill in particular is a big offender). Also there a lot of conflict is going on there, including political, that made the destruction faster, including destruction being sped up in name of conservation, for example worldwide media was all happy when a particular logger got arrested, only for the destruction to speed up after his arrest, because the people that kept calling the police on him were actually trying to use the police to push him out so they could squat the land, and indeed they did so, as soon he was kicked out, illegal loggers and miners moved in, and fortified, now THOSE people can't be kicked out because they are heavily armed and the police fears the political fallout of that. Meanwhile the area they squatted had logging sped-up a lot, and trees that previously were being preserved as seed stock got cut down, ruining the management work being done there.

kickout 5y ago
Excellent comment.
- maccard 5y ago
  Except it's not true - all sources say that the primary reason for deforestation in brazil is cattle grazing. Wikipedia [0] has numerous sources that say the exact opposite of what OP has said. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation_of_the_Amazon_rainforest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation_of_the_Amazon_ra...
ramblenode 5y ago
According to this paper 70-80% of Brazil's deforestation begins as pasture creation: http://www7.nau.edu/mpcer/direnet/publications/publications_n/files/nepstad_interactions.pdf http://www7.nau.edu/mpcer/direnet/publications/publications_...

ireadfaces 5y ago

Always come with citations.