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That's a fair criticism, although you really pulled out the big hyperbolic guns. Insane? Not really. And you continue to make personal attacks even in your foot

That's a fair criticism, although you really pulled out the big hyperbolic guns. Insane? Not really. And you continue to make personal attacks even in your footnote. But hey, it's an internet discussion board, I'm guilty of the same. The guy broke democracy and started a trend that IMHO will inevitably break the US. There's no stopping the nihilistic-right's rise fueled by an uneducated white minority bent on revenge via politics for their oppression at the hands of those they vote for. This nihilism, meaning its not that side A is correct or side B is correct: there is no "correct". That's worse than two pointless wars, IMHO, and it springs directly from Trump. A fountainhead of corruption the likes of which modern democracy has never seen. And I stand by that.

mardifoufs 5y ago
Yet that white minority is more willing to stop bombing non white across the world. It's a bit unreal but it's the truth. You ought to realize that you are also coming from an imo pretty... White-democrat point of view right? And my argument is exactly that a segment of the country, mostly white, went to such a extent to get revenge on the 2016 election that they sided with literally everyone they used to hate not even a decade ago. I'm sorry but how is that for nihilism? Your arguments are again very philosophical, but in a way just dismiss the destruction of an entire generation of Iraqi (and Syrian, by ripple effects) because a nihilistic trend of your political opposition rising? I'm sorry but come on! Like you are exactly doing what I was critizing in the first place. "those people may have died, and that region may have been hopelessly destabilized but at least Bush (who literally was elected by the supreme Court which makes this even more ironic) wasn't nihilistic?". The guy that came up with you are either with us or you are with the terrorists? Of course it's worse than 2 wars you have never been affected by. The entire USA had a complete meltdown over allegations of Russians rigging the elections, without any American casualty. In fact I'd bet that one of the reason you are saying trump broke democracy is probably related to those allegations. But when the US is destroying entire countries it's no big deal? I hope you can see the cognitive dissonance there or at least why your point of view is very very white centered. And that's without even getting into how the democrats attacked the integrity of the elections for years, rightly or wrongly yet I don't see how that didn't directly undermine trust in democracy. It was a dance-à-deux, and if trump ends up breaking democracy down the line it's not because one side pushed against it. My point here is that no matter how you look at it, the entire thing is related to partisan politics not a righteous crusade that couldve somehow justified arguing that 2 desastrous, decades long wars were in fact less important/bad. But that's all unrelated. Look, I'm not American, not white and not Christian.to me it boils down to this. I don't think anything is more cynical and cold than to publicly downplay and rehabilitate a figure that caused so much more pain and suffering because that would score points. That's it. I really didn't want to come off as insulting you, honestly. And I get that some things can't really be expressed in a non offensive way (even if that's not the intention) when it comes to heated subjects like this. That's why I'm not going to touch on some of your other points. Again, it's not because I'd have insulted you otherwise, but because I don't know how to express what the war on terror felt like from the "inside" without inevitably sounding hyperbolic.
- SavantIdiot 5y ago
  > I'm sorry but come on! Like you are exactly doing what I was critizing in the first place. Shit. That's an excellent point. Thanks for making me realize it. I'm being absolutely glib about 1M+ deaths. Yeah, that's totally privilege. My bad. I'll go think on that for a while. Yes, I'm a white liberal and I haven't been called out this succinctly and correctly in a long time. I responded like shit because I got angry, my apologies. Thanks again.
  - mardifoufs 5y ago
    Hey this is actually really nice to read, and no matter what you end up concluding I think it's good to just put things in perspective. I totally realize it's harder to get the whole picture for a lot of people who weren't really affected or involved, just like it is harder for me to relate to let's say the current Ethiopian civil war and it's very harsh effects on the local population since it's so detached from my every day life. Even as a Muslim , I'd probably have been oblivious to the war on terror if it wasn't for my parents being very into Arab politics and the family tv always tuned to Arabic news. Growing up with daily reports of bombings, suicide bombings, mothers crying on TV, and just footage of destruction everywhere is what made me realize and process how much misery was brought upon so many people. it got to the point where the opposite of the normal media sentionalism happened and a few dozen people dying in a suicide bombing/drone strike barely made it in the news. the weird part was that it somehow was never ending.from the invasion of Iraq, to the insurgency to the Iraqi surge to the afghan surge to libya to Syria to Isis to... A bit of very relative peace now? I think everyone would've felt the same if they were in the same situation I think. Even many Arabs and Muslims in the US don't fully realize that either. Cheers!

mardifoufs 5y ago

Yet that white minority is more willing to stop bombing non white across the world. It's a bit unreal but it's the truth. You ought to realize that you are also coming from an imo pretty... White-democrat point of view right? And my argument is exactly that a segment of the country, mostly white, went to such a extent to get revenge on the 2016 election that they sided with literally everyone they used to hate not even a decade ago. I'm sorry but how is that for nihilism? Your arguments are again very philosophical, but in a way just dismiss the destruction of an entire generation of Iraqi (and Syrian, by ripple effects) because a nihilistic trend of your political opposition rising? I'm sorry but come on! Like you are exactly doing what I was critizing in the first place. "those people may have died, and that region may have been hopelessly destabilized but at least Bush (who literally was elected by the supreme Court which makes this even more ironic) wasn't nihilistic?". The guy that came up with you are either with us or you are with the terrorists? Of course it's worse than 2 wars you have never been affected by. The entire USA had a complete meltdown over allegations of Russians rigging the elections, without any American casualty. In fact I'd bet that one of the reason you are saying trump broke democracy is probably related to those allegations. But when the US is destroying entire countries it's no big deal? I hope you can see the cognitive dissonance there or at least why your point of view is very very white centered. And that's without even getting into how the democrats attacked the integrity of the elections for years, rightly or wrongly yet I don't see how that didn't directly undermine trust in democracy. It was a dance-à-deux, and if trump ends up breaking democracy down the line it's not because one side pushed against it. My point here is that no matter how you look at it, the entire thing is related to partisan politics not a righteous crusade that couldve somehow justified arguing that 2 desastrous, decades long wars were in fact less important/bad. But that's all unrelated. Look, I'm not American, not white and not Christian.to me it boils down to this. I don't think anything is more cynical and cold than to publicly downplay and rehabilitate a figure that caused so much more pain and suffering because that would score points. That's it. I really didn't want to come off as insulting you, honestly. And I get that some things can't really be expressed in a non offensive way (even if that's not the intention) when it comes to heated subjects like this. That's why I'm not going to touch on some of your other points. Again, it's not because I'd have insulted you otherwise, but because I don't know how to express what the war on terror felt like from the "inside" without inevitably sounding hyperbolic.

SavantIdiot 5y ago
> I'm sorry but come on! Like you are exactly doing what I was critizing in the first place. Shit. That's an excellent point. Thanks for making me realize it. I'm being absolutely glib about 1M+ deaths. Yeah, that's totally privilege. My bad. I'll go think on that for a while. Yes, I'm a white liberal and I haven't been called out this succinctly and correctly in a long time. I responded like shit because I got angry, my apologies. Thanks again.
- mardifoufs 5y ago
  Hey this is actually really nice to read, and no matter what you end up concluding I think it's good to just put things in perspective. I totally realize it's harder to get the whole picture for a lot of people who weren't really affected or involved, just like it is harder for me to relate to let's say the current Ethiopian civil war and it's very harsh effects on the local population since it's so detached from my every day life. Even as a Muslim , I'd probably have been oblivious to the war on terror if it wasn't for my parents being very into Arab politics and the family tv always tuned to Arabic news. Growing up with daily reports of bombings, suicide bombings, mothers crying on TV, and just footage of destruction everywhere is what made me realize and process how much misery was brought upon so many people. it got to the point where the opposite of the normal media sentionalism happened and a few dozen people dying in a suicide bombing/drone strike barely made it in the news. the weird part was that it somehow was never ending.from the invasion of Iraq, to the insurgency to the Iraqi surge to the afghan surge to libya to Syria to Isis to... A bit of very relative peace now? I think everyone would've felt the same if they were in the same situation I think. Even many Arabs and Muslims in the US don't fully realize that either. Cheers!