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Google Shifting to “Upstream First” Linux Kernel Approach for Android Features

14 points by dcgudeman 5y ago

rektide 5y ago
I continue to believe Right to Repair implies that we, the users, have a right to maintain & upkeep our devices long term. Without this specific work, our phones will never ever be able to be maintained. (That said, the locked bootloader situation is horrific & a blocker.) This has been an extremely trying era, but it feels like we may finally be getting closer to fine.
- marcodiego 5y ago
  There are alternatives. People have to vote with their wallets. Some convenience may be sacrificed but you have to decide how valuable is your freedom and privacy.
  - rektide 5y ago
    I have no idea what you are proposing or what voting-with-your-wallet you think is possible right now. I see very very few options available to consumers that provide any long-term possibility of being supportable. To propose this as a rational choice that market consumers must consider, weigh, & make a decision on sounds ludicrous to me: there's no options to pick from, & telling consumers they must find the 0.000001% of devices that won't screw them over long term or else it's their own fault sounds perposterous. Please, be clearer: what do you think the options are here? To me, right to repair seems obvious & essential.
    - marcodiego 5y ago
      > To me, right to repair seems obvious & essential. Agree 100%. Actually I agree with most of what you said. I'll try to be clearer. There's no ryf-certified phone today, but there is one which is recommended (at least as gifts) by the FSF: the librem-5 (https://www.fsf.org/givingguide/v11/ https://www.fsf.org/givingguide/v11/). Pinephone wouldn't be too far from it. I wouldn't think it is a good idea for an "usual end user" to buy a pinephone or librem-5, they are expensive for their configuration, possibly not easy to use and underpowered; but there are some considerations that must be made. One is that although these devices maybe hard to use, they are probably easy enough for most of the public reading this. Another consideration is that they probably can be good enough to become a daily driver and have features (privacy, freedom, repairability, updates, real ownership of the device...), while avoiding anti-features(binary blobs, locked bootloader, non-uninstallable apps, no right to repair...), that most "mainstream" devices can't. They are certainly less convenient than most android phones, but that is the price one to have to pay for it. And this takes us to another point: the price. This price comes in terms of "clunkyness", outdated hardware and cost. There are many reasons why the price is so high, but one of them is: this kind of device is still very very unpopular. They will continue to be unpopular if so few people are willing to pay the price. That's the reason some people will have to volunteer themselves. It is not a "sacrifice yourself for a greater cause" situation, it is more like: "We're trying to improve the situation! We need help and you can contribute by just buying and using this product". I don't know if pine64 has profits selling the pinephone, but considering they didn't stopped selling it, I'd bet the business is sustainable. It can be (more) profitable if more people joins in. Choices would multiply and improve. I wouldn't expect such stance from an "usual end user", but that is certainly something I hope to see from some people hanging around here. People who are knowledgeable enough to use them and know the implications of such devices in terms of freedom and privacy. So, when I say "vote with your wallet", I mean: your money can make a huge difference, and not only for you, depending on where it ends up.
fsflover 5y ago
I wonder if this move is caused by spreading of GNU/Linux phones running mainline Linux kernel.
phendrenad2 5y ago
Google should just take control of Linux, then they can just use the mainline kernel, and merge in whatever they want whenever they want.

14 points by dcgudeman 5y ago

I continue to believe Right to Repair implies that we, the users, have a right to maintain & upkeep our devices long term. Without this specific work, our phones will never ever be able to be maintained. (That said, the locked bootloader situation is horrific & a blocker.) This has been an extremely trying era, but it feels like we may finally be getting closer to fine.

marcodiego 5y ago
There are alternatives. People have to vote with their wallets. Some convenience may be sacrificed but you have to decide how valuable is your freedom and privacy.
- rektide 5y ago
  I have no idea what you are proposing or what voting-with-your-wallet you think is possible right now. I see very very few options available to consumers that provide any long-term possibility of being supportable. To propose this as a rational choice that market consumers must consider, weigh, & make a decision on sounds ludicrous to me: there's no options to pick from, & telling consumers they must find the 0.000001% of devices that won't screw them over long term or else it's their own fault sounds perposterous. Please, be clearer: what do you think the options are here? To me, right to repair seems obvious & essential.
  - marcodiego 5y ago
    > To me, right to repair seems obvious & essential. Agree 100%. Actually I agree with most of what you said. I'll try to be clearer. There's no ryf-certified phone today, but there is one which is recommended (at least as gifts) by the FSF: the librem-5 (https://www.fsf.org/givingguide/v11/ https://www.fsf.org/givingguide/v11/). Pinephone wouldn't be too far from it. I wouldn't think it is a good idea for an "usual end user" to buy a pinephone or librem-5, they are expensive for their configuration, possibly not easy to use and underpowered; but there are some considerations that must be made. One is that although these devices maybe hard to use, they are probably easy enough for most of the public reading this. Another consideration is that they probably can be good enough to become a daily driver and have features (privacy, freedom, repairability, updates, real ownership of the device...), while avoiding anti-features(binary blobs, locked bootloader, non-uninstallable apps, no right to repair...), that most "mainstream" devices can't. They are certainly less convenient than most android phones, but that is the price one to have to pay for it. And this takes us to another point: the price. This price comes in terms of "clunkyness", outdated hardware and cost. There are many reasons why the price is so high, but one of them is: this kind of device is still very very unpopular. They will continue to be unpopular if so few people are willing to pay the price. That's the reason some people will have to volunteer themselves. It is not a "sacrifice yourself for a greater cause" situation, it is more like: "We're trying to improve the situation! We need help and you can contribute by just buying and using this product". I don't know if pine64 has profits selling the pinephone, but considering they didn't stopped selling it, I'd bet the business is sustainable. It can be (more) profitable if more people joins in. Choices would multiply and improve. I wouldn't expect such stance from an "usual end user", but that is certainly something I hope to see from some people hanging around here. People who are knowledgeable enough to use them and know the implications of such devices in terms of freedom and privacy. So, when I say "vote with your wallet", I mean: your money can make a huge difference, and not only for you, depending on where it ends up.

fsflover 5y ago

I wonder if this move is caused by spreading of GNU/Linux phones running mainline Linux kernel.

phendrenad2 5y ago

Google should just take control of Linux, then they can just use the mainline kernel, and merge in whatever they want whenever they want.