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I found this bit very interesting > I realised that my life while using Apple products is > controlled by Product Managers/Owners who want to get a > raise, r

by ribit 5y ago

I found this bit very interesting > I realised that my life while using Apple products is > controlled by Product Managers/Owners who want to get a > raise, rather than by technology people who share the same > passion as me Mainly because I feel exactly the opposite. I don’t find Windows, Linux or x86 technologically exiting anymore.Apple makes (IMO of course) the most technologically exciting CPUs, their GPUs are a breath of fresh air, I love their approach to UI, APIs and OS security.

Invictus0 5y ago
What kind of ridiculous metric is "technologically exciting"? CPU/GPU speed is really just a cat and mouse game--soon enough an even crappier suite of Electron apps will make the M1 feel slow. Apple's UI approach is just terrible lately [0][1], and the OS security comment must be a joke in light of the CSAM scanning debacle--are you living under a rock? [0]: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/22/ios-15-how-to-move-safari-address-bar-to-the-top.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/22/ios-15-how-to-move-safari-ad... [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27559832 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27559832
- oreilles 5y ago
  Placing the url at the bottom is brilliant UI wise considering the height of the average smartphone nowadays. And anyway they made this an option for those who wouldn't like it. The “mess" that was discussed in your second link (the hovering URL bar) was only present in beta version and has been removed from the release. Finally, CSAM scanning has nothing to do with OS security, but with privacy.
  - blacksmith_tb 5y ago
    Sure is - and Firefox has done that (while still allowing you to put it at the top if that's what you prefer) for several versions now.
  - babypuncher 5y ago
    I did not realize how much I needed this change in my mobile browser until I installed iOS 15 yesterday. I already cannot fathom how we dealt with the URL bar at the top of these big phones for so long. It's been a long time since a major UI change in some popular software actually made me happy, let alone this ecstatic. I'm usually one to complain about unnecessary change (like Firefox's recent UI refresh)
  - WA 5y ago
    > Placing the url at the bottom is brilliant UI wise considering the height of the average smartphone nowadays. It's not at the bottom, but within the content viewport. Browsers need a dedicated "safe space" for notifications and symbols like a lock for HTTPS. A floating address bar over the content of the website could easily be faked using HTML/CSS/JS and abused for phishing. Sure, put it at the bottom, but not as a floating pill over the content.
intricatedetail 5y ago
In the past people used to trade their freedom for shiny objects. Be careful.
- ribit 5y ago
  What is this „freedom“ you are talking about? Are you suggesting that my experience somehow lacks freedom?
  - intricatedetail 5y ago
    For now you are only being watched and manipulated, but Apple is already working on ways shiny device will snitch on you. The progress for the shiny object to become a leash and a whip is slow and steady. You don't want the frog to jump.
    - ribit 5y ago
      Pah, folks have been predicting doom glom and total lockdown on Apple systems for over a decade now, and so far, not a single step has been taken towards it. In fact, I feel like my freedom is more practically restricted on Linux, with its' general hostility agains distributing compiled code.
      - nbzso 5y ago
        Not a single step? Please install trial of Little Snitch on your beloved Apple computer and observe. I see you don't like to listen, you just casually speak nonsense. If this tread is showing reality of the level of critical thinking by the tech educated people, we are living in 1984 in full swing. Attacking the author for sharing personal decisions which have factual data, disregarding arguments with personal "ease of use" points. Just totally out of touch and reality. And when I think that most of these people are producing the software solutions of today - OMG.
        Cipater 5y ago
tombert 5y ago
I mostly agree. For example, I think that Metal doesn't get the love it deserves outside of the dedicated macOS engineers. I feel like Metal is substantially cleaner than OpenGL and way easier than Vulkan, and I feel like the Linux folks really ignore this at their own peril. I hate how closed-off a lot of their ecosystem can be, and the obvious "I prefer open source" that every engineer says, but I do honestly (and sadly) think that macOS is the least-bad *desktop OS out there right now.
- jay_kyburz 5y ago
  I think the reason that Metal is not interesting people is that you can't run it outside Apples ecosystem. If you learn Vulkan, your code will run everywhere.
  - tombert 5y ago
    Sure, more or less, I'm just saying that the API for Vulkan feels pretty steep and irritating, but the API for Metal is somewhat approachable. I'm not a graphics programmer, but whenever I've gotten the itch, I've always gotten huge headaches trying to get Vulkan to work, and had basically no issues at all using Metal.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      Maybe Apple should enter the world-changing business instead of presiding over the money-making one, then.
- babypuncher 5y ago
  Metal is irritating because of its exclusivity. Nobody wants to make games just for macOS. The supposed ease and speed of writing Metal is completely lost since you still have to write a Vulkan or OpenGL renderer. It's just more busywork for anyone not exclusively targeting Apple platforms.
  - tombert 5y ago
    That's a fair criticism, though is there any technical reason someone couldn't write a Metal->OpenGL or Metal->Vulkan or Metal->Direct3d wrapper?
qaq 5y ago
OS Security ? NSO has what looks to be an infinite supply of remote arbitrary code execution exploits for the Apple ecosystem.
- runjake 5y ago
  Not just the Apple ecosystem, pretty much every ecosystem, especially Android and Windows.
  - nyuszika7h 5y ago
    Not sure why you're being downvoted, you're right. HN commenters just love to take every opportunity to hate on Apple. Nobody said Apple's security is perfect. People's views are simply biased because when Apple's much tighter security is breached, of course it will make headlines everywhere. Windows and Android have far more malware, but you won't see headlines about it every single day. Either way, unless you're a journalist, politician or some other high-value target, you're pretty unlikely to be targeted by exploits like the NSO one. But if you don't care about jailbreaking, you can still update your device to give yourself peace of mind.
    - Dah00n 5y ago
      Zero days are more expensive for Android than for iOS. That says something when Android is much more likely to be used by a target. Android security is broken but it is generally better than what Apple does.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- slownews45 5y ago
  For a long time actually there were TONS of android exploits - either direct android or based on the installers companies put on phones they shipped. That has changed massively recently, my sense is rough parity currently (on a clean android phone). Payouts are still a lot higher per point marketshare for iOS though, so maybe still harder to develop.
acmdas 5y ago
I love my 2011 MacBook Pro's hardware - the case, the keyboard, the hinges. I liked OS-X Lion just fine, and every update since then has seemed to be a downgrade...I still need to use the 2011 Office I bought then now and then, or I'd have converted it to Debian years ago.
grumpyprole 5y ago
Sure the CPU is great, but the hardware is just too unrepairable and disposable. The software is also too much about Apple lock-in. For example, Apple Music can't even play FLAC files.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Maursault 5y ago
  > the hardware is just too unrepairable and disposable Pretty sure it was before the millennium when computers became cheap while the value of repair skills increased, it was no longer cost effective then to have the old malfunctioning computer of any make repaired. I expect you mean that you want to repair it yourself, but if you are skilled enough to do that, your time is valuable, so it hasn't been worth your time for at least two decades to spend even 10 hours a year repairing a machine more than about 3 years old. And AppleCare is worth the cost of extended warranty, so you don't have to repair it. > Apple Music can't even play FLAC files That's just that software. VLC runs on Apple Silicon, so you don't need to use Apple Music, but if you did and want to play FLAC files, you'd need to transcode them to ALAC, Apple Lossless (or mp3 or aac for lossy). You could build and script ffmpeg to transcode all your FLAC files to ALAC in one CLI command, because lossless is lossless. I'm kind of curious just how fast Apple Silicon will do that... seconds I bet, because it takes only a couple minutes for my Core2Duo to transcode a full-length album of FLAC to ALAC.
  - bscphil 5y ago
    > it hasn't been worth your time for at least two decades to spend even 10 hours a year repairing a machine more than about 3 years old. The median hourly income in the United States is $20/hr. Buying a new computer every three years is certainly going to cost you more than $200 a year, unless you buy extremely cheaply. And that's leaving out the massive environmental externalities of not repairing older equipment rather than throwing it away. Also leaves out the fact that most people have free time that they can not trivially trade for more working hours. Furthermore, 10 hours a year seems ludicrous. Apple bricked my MBP with the Big Sur update (along with many other people's laptops, it was a bit of a scandal). I repaired the rather infamously not-repair-friendly Apple device in about half an hour with a part I bought on Ebay for less than $10.
brokenmachine 5y ago
I'll give you CPUs but I hate their "dumb it down" approach to UI, and Apple's only passion seems to be coming up with new ways to lock the user in and stop them from doing what they want with the PC they bought.
Apofis 5y ago
I have a really beefy System 76 laptop but after using the Mac Developer Transition Kit, I'm eagerly waiting for the Apple M2-based Macbook Pro. As much as I love Linux and linux-desktop, I miss the polish the MacOS has.

by ribit 5y ago

Invictus0 5y ago

What kind of ridiculous metric is "technologically exciting"? CPU/GPU speed is really just a cat and mouse game--soon enough an even crappier suite of Electron apps will make the M1 feel slow. Apple's UI approach is just terrible lately [0][1], and the OS security comment must be a joke in light of the CSAM scanning debacle--are you living under a rock? [0]: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/22/ios-15-how-to-move-safari-address-bar-to-the-top.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/22/ios-15-how-to-move-safari-ad... [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27559832 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27559832

oreilles 5y ago
Placing the url at the bottom is brilliant UI wise considering the height of the average smartphone nowadays. And anyway they made this an option for those who wouldn't like it. The “mess" that was discussed in your second link (the hovering URL bar) was only present in beta version and has been removed from the release. Finally, CSAM scanning has nothing to do with OS security, but with privacy.
- blacksmith_tb 5y ago
  Sure is - and Firefox has done that (while still allowing you to put it at the top if that's what you prefer) for several versions now.
- babypuncher 5y ago
  I did not realize how much I needed this change in my mobile browser until I installed iOS 15 yesterday. I already cannot fathom how we dealt with the URL bar at the top of these big phones for so long. It's been a long time since a major UI change in some popular software actually made me happy, let alone this ecstatic. I'm usually one to complain about unnecessary change (like Firefox's recent UI refresh)
- WA 5y ago
  > Placing the url at the bottom is brilliant UI wise considering the height of the average smartphone nowadays. It's not at the bottom, but within the content viewport. Browsers need a dedicated "safe space" for notifications and symbols like a lock for HTTPS. A floating address bar over the content of the website could easily be faked using HTML/CSS/JS and abused for phishing. Sure, put it at the bottom, but not as a floating pill over the content.

intricatedetail 5y ago

In the past people used to trade their freedom for shiny objects. Be careful.

ribit 5y ago
What is this „freedom“ you are talking about? Are you suggesting that my experience somehow lacks freedom?
- intricatedetail 5y ago
  For now you are only being watched and manipulated, but Apple is already working on ways shiny device will snitch on you. The progress for the shiny object to become a leash and a whip is slow and steady. You don't want the frog to jump.
  - ribit 5y ago
    Pah, folks have been predicting doom glom and total lockdown on Apple systems for over a decade now, and so far, not a single step has been taken towards it. In fact, I feel like my freedom is more practically restricted on Linux, with its' general hostility agains distributing compiled code.
    - nbzso 5y ago
      Not a single step? Please install trial of Little Snitch on your beloved Apple computer and observe. I see you don't like to listen, you just casually speak nonsense. If this tread is showing reality of the level of critical thinking by the tech educated people, we are living in 1984 in full swing. Attacking the author for sharing personal decisions which have factual data, disregarding arguments with personal "ease of use" points. Just totally out of touch and reality. And when I think that most of these people are producing the software solutions of today - OMG.
      - Cipater 5y ago

tombert 5y ago

I mostly agree. For example, I think that Metal doesn't get the love it deserves outside of the dedicated macOS engineers. I feel like Metal is substantially cleaner than OpenGL and way easier than Vulkan, and I feel like the Linux folks really ignore this at their own peril. I hate how closed-off a lot of their ecosystem can be, and the obvious "I prefer open source" that every engineer says, but I do honestly (and sadly) think that macOS is the least-bad *desktop OS out there right now.

jay_kyburz 5y ago
I think the reason that Metal is not interesting people is that you can't run it outside Apples ecosystem. If you learn Vulkan, your code will run everywhere.
- tombert 5y ago
  Sure, more or less, I'm just saying that the API for Vulkan feels pretty steep and irritating, but the API for Metal is somewhat approachable. I'm not a graphics programmer, but whenever I've gotten the itch, I've always gotten huge headaches trying to get Vulkan to work, and had basically no issues at all using Metal.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Maybe Apple should enter the world-changing business instead of presiding over the money-making one, then.
babypuncher 5y ago
Metal is irritating because of its exclusivity. Nobody wants to make games just for macOS. The supposed ease and speed of writing Metal is completely lost since you still have to write a Vulkan or OpenGL renderer. It's just more busywork for anyone not exclusively targeting Apple platforms.
- tombert 5y ago
  That's a fair criticism, though is there any technical reason someone couldn't write a Metal->OpenGL or Metal->Vulkan or Metal->Direct3d wrapper?

qaq 5y ago

OS Security ? NSO has what looks to be an infinite supply of remote arbitrary code execution exploits for the Apple ecosystem.

runjake 5y ago
Not just the Apple ecosystem, pretty much every ecosystem, especially Android and Windows.
- nyuszika7h 5y ago
  Not sure why you're being downvoted, you're right. HN commenters just love to take every opportunity to hate on Apple. Nobody said Apple's security is perfect. People's views are simply biased because when Apple's much tighter security is breached, of course it will make headlines everywhere. Windows and Android have far more malware, but you won't see headlines about it every single day. Either way, unless you're a journalist, politician or some other high-value target, you're pretty unlikely to be targeted by exploits like the NSO one. But if you don't care about jailbreaking, you can still update your device to give yourself peace of mind.
  - Dah00n 5y ago
    Zero days are more expensive for Android than for iOS. That says something when Android is much more likely to be used by a target. Android security is broken but it is generally better than what Apple does.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
slownews45 5y ago
For a long time actually there were TONS of android exploits - either direct android or based on the installers companies put on phones they shipped. That has changed massively recently, my sense is rough parity currently (on a clean android phone). Payouts are still a lot higher per point marketshare for iOS though, so maybe still harder to develop.

acmdas 5y ago

I love my 2011 MacBook Pro's hardware - the case, the keyboard, the hinges. I liked OS-X Lion just fine, and every update since then has seemed to be a downgrade...I still need to use the 2011 Office I bought then now and then, or I'd have converted it to Debian years ago.

grumpyprole 5y ago

Sure the CPU is great, but the hardware is just too unrepairable and disposable. The software is also too much about Apple lock-in. For example, Apple Music can't even play FLAC files.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Maursault 5y ago
> the hardware is just too unrepairable and disposable Pretty sure it was before the millennium when computers became cheap while the value of repair skills increased, it was no longer cost effective then to have the old malfunctioning computer of any make repaired. I expect you mean that you want to repair it yourself, but if you are skilled enough to do that, your time is valuable, so it hasn't been worth your time for at least two decades to spend even 10 hours a year repairing a machine more than about 3 years old. And AppleCare is worth the cost of extended warranty, so you don't have to repair it. > Apple Music can't even play FLAC files That's just that software. VLC runs on Apple Silicon, so you don't need to use Apple Music, but if you did and want to play FLAC files, you'd need to transcode them to ALAC, Apple Lossless (or mp3 or aac for lossy). You could build and script ffmpeg to transcode all your FLAC files to ALAC in one CLI command, because lossless is lossless. I'm kind of curious just how fast Apple Silicon will do that... seconds I bet, because it takes only a couple minutes for my Core2Duo to transcode a full-length album of FLAC to ALAC.
- bscphil 5y ago
  > it hasn't been worth your time for at least two decades to spend even 10 hours a year repairing a machine more than about 3 years old. The median hourly income in the United States is $20/hr. Buying a new computer every three years is certainly going to cost you more than $200 a year, unless you buy extremely cheaply. And that's leaving out the massive environmental externalities of not repairing older equipment rather than throwing it away. Also leaves out the fact that most people have free time that they can not trivially trade for more working hours. Furthermore, 10 hours a year seems ludicrous. Apple bricked my MBP with the Big Sur update (along with many other people's laptops, it was a bit of a scandal). I repaired the rather infamously not-repair-friendly Apple device in about half an hour with a part I bought on Ebay for less than $10.

brokenmachine 5y ago

I'll give you CPUs but I hate their "dumb it down" approach to UI, and Apple's only passion seems to be coming up with new ways to lock the user in and stop them from doing what they want with the PC they bought.

Apofis 5y ago

I have a really beefy System 76 laptop but after using the Mac Developer Transition Kit, I'm eagerly waiting for the Apple M2-based Macbook Pro. As much as I love Linux and linux-desktop, I miss the polish the MacOS has.