8 ms·

Isn’t HN social media?

by tarr11 5y ago

betenoire 5y ago
Isn't it a forum? It doesn't have friends, following, asking for your contacts, etc. I guess the line is subjective, this is just a plain old forum, managed very well, imo.
- scarecrowbob 5y ago
  For what little it's worth, I've been online since Compuserve and personal local BBSs... I absolutely consider HN to be social media.
  - fjabre 5y ago
    Yes it is particularly social because it has the concept of Karma. It has tamed it by policy but vanity can never be tamed outright. It will always exist in some form on these networks and HN/Reddit style forums capitalize on humans’ vanity by appealing to it through Karma. Thus it ticks up the social-ness score a bit for sites like HN as opposed to some old forums like one would find on Yahoo or used to find on Compuserv. Karma and the wisdom of crowds gives way to herd mentality and vanity. It is what drives the form of discussion on these sites.
    - Minor49er 5y ago
      Is karma the line where the social-ness is drawn? I mean, I've been on here for a while and haven't even recognized anyone in any meaningful capacity by their handle. 100% of my interactions on here have been with strangers that have and will remain as strangers, as I am also a stranger to them.
      - fjabre 5y ago
        There is no line for online communities. They are all social to some extent. Karma simply makes them more so. We are no longer strangers. Social-ness has been engaged ;)
  - betenoire 5y ago
    Mind sharing why? Is it the features or something else? When I think back 20 years to forums, HN feels most like those to me. It feels nothing like what most people call "social media"
    - optimalsolver 5y ago
      Out of curiosity, do you condider Reddit to be social media? To me, HN is just a well-maintained subreddit (pseudonymous, karma-based voting system, recency bias, etc.)
      - betenoire 5y ago
        Hmm... Yes. But I can't make a cogent argument why lol. 13 year club here, the Reddit I think of is probably not aligned with what Reddit thinks of itself anymore.
    - scarecrowbob 5y ago
      I feel that the sine qua non of "social media" is user generated content conducted between specific users: tied to specific accounts, where users have one-to-one public conversations and those conversations are foregrounded as the site's content. I do feel that message forums/ usenet/ bbs/ etc meet those criteria in various ways and I do consider them forms of social media. I know that this seems overly broad to some people (and they have good reasons even if I don't agree with them in the end). I don't think "social media" is a pejorative in the way a lot of folks use the term... I mean, sure, HN deals with a lot of the horrible parts of what can be done with that media in healthier ways than, say, myspace did. But just because HN makes it harder to track specific users doesn't mean that it can't be done... people very much do have specific accounts here, and I have often looked up past commentary these users have generated to get more context about their points.
  - slantyyz 5y ago
    > For what little it's worth, I've been online since Compuserve and personal local BBSs... > I absolutely consider HN to be social media. I've been online for the same period of time, and I absolutely do not consider HN to be social media. Sure, there are some commonalities like upvotes, but I consider (my opinion only) these to be important criteria of something "being" social media: a) Most importantly, a friends/connections list, or "followers" b) Being able to see who liked/disliked posts c) The "feed" being personalized/targeted
    - betenoire 5y ago
      D) no notifications
    - scarecrowbob 5y ago
      Well, the ethos of how long we've been on the net isn't quite as important as our rationale. I feel that the sine qua non of "social media" is user generated content conducted between specific users: tied to specific accounts, where users have one-to-one public conversations and those conversations are foregrounded as the site's content. I don't agree that knowing who has up/down voted a comment is as fundamental as the fact that the sites' content -is- the comment. And while the system doesn't foreground user accounts, I have often found it helpful to look at a user's contributions to better understand their commentary. Finally, the fact that it's entirely possible to implement a "friends" list or a "feed" based on search results (and that this would apply to the foregrounded content of the site) seems to me to indicate that there's not just a social aspect to the content here, but that this is, in fact a social media site. I mean, I could search user reviews on IMBD, amazon, or the wiki, but I've never found that to be in line with how I use those sites... here the conversations are the entire reason I use the site. That user generated content is the whole thing for me.
      - slantyyz 5y ago
        HN is social, and media, but I don't consider it social media in the same way as FB, Instagram, Twitter, and their ilk. Let me put it another way, to me, one critical defining feature of a "social media" site: when you register, one of the first tasks you do is to identify people you know (or want to know) so they can be somehow linked to you as a friend or someone you're following.
- RandallBrown 5y ago
  Aren't forums social media?
  - betenoire 5y ago
    Would you say ALL forums are social media? Consider that we have commenters in here saying they don't use social media... So... Kinda, but certainly not in everyone's mind apparently. I feel some je ne sais quoi about the terminology. There is something different, I dunno
- nonbirithm 5y ago
  I would not consider it a forum in the sense of an old-fashioned phpBB community, because it has the concept of moving people's contributions to more visible places based on how many people upvote them. In the way I understand the term, a forum would only rank posts and topics based on when people choose to contribute, and nothing more.
Torwald 5y ago
Depends on how you define the term. Historically, the term came up in the verge of Web 2.0 and was distinct from other social online media in that a specific software was the basis for each respective SN. So for example Twitter is SN because you had the app on the phone that was only Twitter so that was SN. But an online forum was not, because everybody could obtain the same software and run a forum. So by that defition HN is social media.
CannoloBlahnik 5y ago
Yes, Hacker News and Reddit are both social media.
- fullshark 5y ago
  I think I agree, they are media providers that publish headlines/news feeds based on user engagement.
motohagiography 5y ago
Best question. Declined to join or participate any social media from the beginning. HN is absolutely is on the spectrum of social media, but more like a well moderated usenet group. It's a well run decoupled internet comment section, sort of like a fat tailed reddit. Without pictures, friends, followers, alerts, verified identities, personalization and emphasis on personal branding, an ad-driven revenue model, I wouldn't call it social media. If someone asked for my "social media accounts," I would not include HN in that, however, a subpoena might treat it differently. Security clearance people might think that as well. The fig-leaf pseudonymity provides some modesty, honesty, and civility for actual discourse, where social media is about status signalling, and not much else.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
Igelau 5y ago
It doesn't have any networking features as far as I can tell. If HN was ever directly instrumental in getting someone laid, you might have an argument, but I'm going to say "no". If it had direct messaging and follow/subscribe features, it absolutely would be, and I say these are things that make Reddit social media while HN is only a forum.
reducesuffering 5y ago
HN is at it's essence a custom subreddit. And Reddit is definitely social media. Social: majority of time is spent reading people's commentary, many who are just a slightly obscured version of the rest of their social media identity, and sometimes responding in dialogue. Even though it's pseudonymous it doesn't mean it's asocial. Media: Basically what all the links are

Isn’t HN social media?

by tarr11 5y ago

Isn’t HN social media?

Isn't it a forum? It doesn't have friends, following, asking for your contacts, etc. I guess the line is subjective, this is just a plain old forum, managed very well, imo.

scarecrowbob 5y ago
For what little it's worth, I've been online since Compuserve and personal local BBSs... I absolutely consider HN to be social media.
- fjabre 5y ago
  Yes it is particularly social because it has the concept of Karma. It has tamed it by policy but vanity can never be tamed outright. It will always exist in some form on these networks and HN/Reddit style forums capitalize on humans’ vanity by appealing to it through Karma. Thus it ticks up the social-ness score a bit for sites like HN as opposed to some old forums like one would find on Yahoo or used to find on Compuserv. Karma and the wisdom of crowds gives way to herd mentality and vanity. It is what drives the form of discussion on these sites.
  - Minor49er 5y ago
    Is karma the line where the social-ness is drawn? I mean, I've been on here for a while and haven't even recognized anyone in any meaningful capacity by their handle. 100% of my interactions on here have been with strangers that have and will remain as strangers, as I am also a stranger to them.
    - fjabre 5y ago
      There is no line for online communities. They are all social to some extent. Karma simply makes them more so. We are no longer strangers. Social-ness has been engaged ;)
- betenoire 5y ago
  Mind sharing why? Is it the features or something else? When I think back 20 years to forums, HN feels most like those to me. It feels nothing like what most people call "social media"
  - optimalsolver 5y ago
    Out of curiosity, do you condider Reddit to be social media? To me, HN is just a well-maintained subreddit (pseudonymous, karma-based voting system, recency bias, etc.)
    - betenoire 5y ago
      Hmm... Yes. But I can't make a cogent argument why lol. 13 year club here, the Reddit I think of is probably not aligned with what Reddit thinks of itself anymore.
  - scarecrowbob 5y ago
    I feel that the sine qua non of "social media" is user generated content conducted between specific users: tied to specific accounts, where users have one-to-one public conversations and those conversations are foregrounded as the site's content. I do feel that message forums/ usenet/ bbs/ etc meet those criteria in various ways and I do consider them forms of social media. I know that this seems overly broad to some people (and they have good reasons even if I don't agree with them in the end). I don't think "social media" is a pejorative in the way a lot of folks use the term... I mean, sure, HN deals with a lot of the horrible parts of what can be done with that media in healthier ways than, say, myspace did. But just because HN makes it harder to track specific users doesn't mean that it can't be done... people very much do have specific accounts here, and I have often looked up past commentary these users have generated to get more context about their points.
- slantyyz 5y ago
  > For what little it's worth, I've been online since Compuserve and personal local BBSs... > I absolutely consider HN to be social media. I've been online for the same period of time, and I absolutely do not consider HN to be social media. Sure, there are some commonalities like upvotes, but I consider (my opinion only) these to be important criteria of something "being" social media: a) Most importantly, a friends/connections list, or "followers" b) Being able to see who liked/disliked posts c) The "feed" being personalized/targeted
  - betenoire 5y ago
    D) no notifications
  - scarecrowbob 5y ago
    Well, the ethos of how long we've been on the net isn't quite as important as our rationale. I feel that the sine qua non of "social media" is user generated content conducted between specific users: tied to specific accounts, where users have one-to-one public conversations and those conversations are foregrounded as the site's content. I don't agree that knowing who has up/down voted a comment is as fundamental as the fact that the sites' content -is- the comment. And while the system doesn't foreground user accounts, I have often found it helpful to look at a user's contributions to better understand their commentary. Finally, the fact that it's entirely possible to implement a "friends" list or a "feed" based on search results (and that this would apply to the foregrounded content of the site) seems to me to indicate that there's not just a social aspect to the content here, but that this is, in fact a social media site. I mean, I could search user reviews on IMBD, amazon, or the wiki, but I've never found that to be in line with how I use those sites... here the conversations are the entire reason I use the site. That user generated content is the whole thing for me.
    - slantyyz 5y ago
      HN is social, and media, but I don't consider it social media in the same way as FB, Instagram, Twitter, and their ilk. Let me put it another way, to me, one critical defining feature of a "social media" site: when you register, one of the first tasks you do is to identify people you know (or want to know) so they can be somehow linked to you as a friend or someone you're following.
RandallBrown 5y ago
Aren't forums social media?
- betenoire 5y ago
  Would you say ALL forums are social media? Consider that we have commenters in here saying they don't use social media... So... Kinda, but certainly not in everyone's mind apparently. I feel some je ne sais quoi about the terminology. There is something different, I dunno
nonbirithm 5y ago
I would not consider it a forum in the sense of an old-fashioned phpBB community, because it has the concept of moving people's contributions to more visible places based on how many people upvote them. In the way I understand the term, a forum would only rank posts and topics based on when people choose to contribute, and nothing more.

Torwald 5y ago

Depends on how you define the term. Historically, the term came up in the verge of Web 2.0 and was distinct from other social online media in that a specific software was the basis for each respective SN. So for example Twitter is SN because you had the app on the phone that was only Twitter so that was SN. But an online forum was not, because everybody could obtain the same software and run a forum. So by that defition HN is social media.

CannoloBlahnik 5y ago

Yes, Hacker News and Reddit are both social media.

fullshark 5y ago
I think I agree, they are media providers that publish headlines/news feeds based on user engagement.

motohagiography 5y ago

Best question. Declined to join or participate any social media from the beginning. HN is absolutely is on the spectrum of social media, but more like a well moderated usenet group. It's a well run decoupled internet comment section, sort of like a fat tailed reddit. Without pictures, friends, followers, alerts, verified identities, personalization and emphasis on personal branding, an ad-driven revenue model, I wouldn't call it social media. If someone asked for my "social media accounts," I would not include HN in that, however, a subpoena might treat it differently. Security clearance people might think that as well. The fig-leaf pseudonymity provides some modesty, honesty, and civility for actual discourse, where social media is about status signalling, and not much else.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

Igelau 5y ago

It doesn't have any networking features as far as I can tell. If HN was ever directly instrumental in getting someone laid, you might have an argument, but I'm going to say "no". If it had direct messaging and follow/subscribe features, it absolutely would be, and I say these are things that make Reddit social media while HN is only a forum.

reducesuffering 5y ago

HN is at it's essence a custom subreddit. And Reddit is definitely social media. Social: majority of time is spent reading people's commentary, many who are just a slightly obscured version of the rest of their social media identity, and sometimes responding in dialogue. Even though it's pseudonymous it doesn't mean it's asocial. Media: Basically what all the links are