5 ms·

"I don't want to stop using drugs, I just want drugs that are not going to harm me while I use them" Unfortunately, social media by its nature is going to be h

"I don't want to stop using drugs, I just want drugs that are not going to harm me while I use them" Unfortunately, social media by its nature is going to be harmful. It was never designed to consider the world we live in now.

colecut 5y ago
What you're looking for are the illegal drugs
scarecrowbob 5y ago
What exactly is wrong with that? We decided we wanted to derive cars, but without the harmful effects of being in crashes, so we decided to create safer vehicles. I like some drugs, and a lot of them are okay in some situations with some boundaries... even if a lot of the users are using them for unhealthy reasons in situations that make the drugs problematic. I like social media-- I'm literally using it right now to communicate with you. But I do that because I value your thought (even though I disagree with it) and I am able to interact with you in a space that both moderates my behavior by giving up/down vote feedback and which doesn't have a lot of tolerance for poor discourse habits. If you apply those same rubrics to other social media and don't tolerate them when it violates those boundaries, I believe it's possible to use them in healthy ways.
- trutannus 5y ago
  Nothing is wrong with wanting that. I just don't think it is realistic. I've purged all social media other than HN at this point.
- Minor49er 5y ago
  > I like social media-- I'm literally using it right now to communicate with you If you're extending the definition of social media to include sites like Hacker News, you may as well categorize the entire Internet as social media
  - scarecrowbob 5y ago
    I dunno... I feel that the sine qua non of "social media" is user generated content conducted between specific users, tied to specific accounts. Not even wikis meet that definition, and certainly not most of the author-generated content-based site like blogs or market sites such as amazon, or news sites where the discussion isn't the putative content.
    - Minor49er 5y ago
      But don't wikis commonly have a "Talk" section or similar? The pages that are posted and edited would surely fall under author-generated content.
      - scarecrowbob 5y ago
        I believe a lot of the internet has social aspects. Is it possible that the "social" aspects of this media operate on a sliding scale? I understand the point that literally any website could be thought of as "user generated"... I've personally made quite a few websites. But the level of interaction and the modalities of how I and a lot of folks use things isn't as interactive as, say, twitter. So, perhaps for some user populations a Wiki is a social experience, especially for the folks who edit them. Though from my perspective, it feels entirely possible to use it without engaging in that social aspect. I don't feel the same about Hackernews and/or reddit in general.
        Minor49er 5y ago
        The social aspects absolutely work on a sliding scale. I completely agree. But I don't think that the amount or variety of social engagement is what really contributes to something being classified as "social media".
        scarecrowbob 5y ago
        Well, how are you defining social media? I feel like "user generated content conducted between specific users, tied to specific accounts, where users have one-to-one public conversations and those conversations are foregrounded as the site's content" is reasonable. So, if that's my definition Wikis aren't social media and HN would be. But I also feel like HN is just a flavor of Reddit, and I feel that most people understand Reddit to be "social media". I could be worng about those feelings.
silicon2401 5y ago
> Unfortunately, social media by its nature is going to be harmful. I disagree. Social media has never harmed me, I just realized it wasn't worth my time. I've never had issues with self-esteem, confidence, popularity, whatever. I used social media as a photo diary for myself, shared pictures and videos with friends, kept up with what my friends are doing. To this day I check in on social media once in a while just because it's more effective than texting 100+ people to see what they're up to. That being said, I don't think social media is worth more of my time than a few minutes every few weeks or months
- cryptoz 5y ago
  > Social media has never harmed me How do you know that? This isn't something you can typically know for your self with any degree of confidence. > To this day I check in on social media once in a while You've got a lot of recent comments on HN for this to be true. I think you use social media a lot more than you think you do, and it could be impacting you in ways that you don't notice.
  - silicon2401 5y ago
    > You've got a lot of recent comments on HN for this to be true. I think you use social media a lot more than you think you do, and it could be impacting you in ways that you don't notice. Ah so you're that kind of user. Semantics. I don't consider HN social media, when I say social media I mean instagram, facebook, etc. I consider HN a forum like reddit or other places. My usage of forums is a way to kill time when I'm at work. > How do you know that? This isn't something you can typically know for your self with any degree of confidence. Speak for yourself. Maybe you can't typically know this for yourself, but I can. And more importantly, if you're not coming into this exchange in good faith and willing to trust my claims, then any chance of reasonable conversation is gone. I'll be wrapping up my end of our conversation here, thanks.
  - bserge 5y ago
    And why should you or I judge and decide on that? If their opinion is that it doesn't impact them, that's good enough.
shuntress 5y ago
Do you drink coffee?
- trutannus 5y ago
  Yep, and I can't wake up with out it, nor can I stop using it despite multiple attempts. Dependence is a harm of it's own.
  - xphx 5y ago
    There is a not so subtle implication of your comments being voted down that those claiming HN is not an instance of social media would be well-advised to reflect on.
- drdeadringer 5y ago
  Do you eat food? Do you breathe air? Somehow coffee is completely different. Somehow coffee is on the same tier as tobacco or cocaine. It's not. Relax. Enjoy a cocoa.
  - shuntress 5y ago
    That is exactly my point. "I don't want to stop eating food, I just want food that is not going to harm me while I eat it" "I don't want to stop breathing air, I just want air that is not going to harm me while I breath it" I don't want to cease all contact with other people. I want to interact socially in non-harmful ways.
  - fortuna86 5y ago
    Food and air sustain your life, they don't create chemical dependencies.

colecut 5y ago

What you're looking for are the illegal drugs

scarecrowbob 5y ago

What exactly is wrong with that? We decided we wanted to derive cars, but without the harmful effects of being in crashes, so we decided to create safer vehicles. I like some drugs, and a lot of them are okay in some situations with some boundaries... even if a lot of the users are using them for unhealthy reasons in situations that make the drugs problematic. I like social media-- I'm literally using it right now to communicate with you. But I do that because I value your thought (even though I disagree with it) and I am able to interact with you in a space that both moderates my behavior by giving up/down vote feedback and which doesn't have a lot of tolerance for poor discourse habits. If you apply those same rubrics to other social media and don't tolerate them when it violates those boundaries, I believe it's possible to use them in healthy ways.

trutannus 5y ago
Nothing is wrong with wanting that. I just don't think it is realistic. I've purged all social media other than HN at this point.
Minor49er 5y ago
> I like social media-- I'm literally using it right now to communicate with you If you're extending the definition of social media to include sites like Hacker News, you may as well categorize the entire Internet as social media
- scarecrowbob 5y ago
  I dunno... I feel that the sine qua non of "social media" is user generated content conducted between specific users, tied to specific accounts. Not even wikis meet that definition, and certainly not most of the author-generated content-based site like blogs or market sites such as amazon, or news sites where the discussion isn't the putative content.
  - Minor49er 5y ago
    But don't wikis commonly have a "Talk" section or similar? The pages that are posted and edited would surely fall under author-generated content.
    - scarecrowbob 5y ago
      I believe a lot of the internet has social aspects. Is it possible that the "social" aspects of this media operate on a sliding scale? I understand the point that literally any website could be thought of as "user generated"... I've personally made quite a few websites. But the level of interaction and the modalities of how I and a lot of folks use things isn't as interactive as, say, twitter. So, perhaps for some user populations a Wiki is a social experience, especially for the folks who edit them. Though from my perspective, it feels entirely possible to use it without engaging in that social aspect. I don't feel the same about Hackernews and/or reddit in general.
      - Minor49er 5y ago
        The social aspects absolutely work on a sliding scale. I completely agree. But I don't think that the amount or variety of social engagement is what really contributes to something being classified as "social media".
        scarecrowbob 5y ago
        Well, how are you defining social media? I feel like "user generated content conducted between specific users, tied to specific accounts, where users have one-to-one public conversations and those conversations are foregrounded as the site's content" is reasonable. So, if that's my definition Wikis aren't social media and HN would be. But I also feel like HN is just a flavor of Reddit, and I feel that most people understand Reddit to be "social media". I could be worng about those feelings.

silicon2401 5y ago

> Unfortunately, social media by its nature is going to be harmful. I disagree. Social media has never harmed me, I just realized it wasn't worth my time. I've never had issues with self-esteem, confidence, popularity, whatever. I used social media as a photo diary for myself, shared pictures and videos with friends, kept up with what my friends are doing. To this day I check in on social media once in a while just because it's more effective than texting 100+ people to see what they're up to. That being said, I don't think social media is worth more of my time than a few minutes every few weeks or months

cryptoz 5y ago
> Social media has never harmed me How do you know that? This isn't something you can typically know for your self with any degree of confidence. > To this day I check in on social media once in a while You've got a lot of recent comments on HN for this to be true. I think you use social media a lot more than you think you do, and it could be impacting you in ways that you don't notice.
- silicon2401 5y ago
  > You've got a lot of recent comments on HN for this to be true. I think you use social media a lot more than you think you do, and it could be impacting you in ways that you don't notice. Ah so you're that kind of user. Semantics. I don't consider HN social media, when I say social media I mean instagram, facebook, etc. I consider HN a forum like reddit or other places. My usage of forums is a way to kill time when I'm at work. > How do you know that? This isn't something you can typically know for your self with any degree of confidence. Speak for yourself. Maybe you can't typically know this for yourself, but I can. And more importantly, if you're not coming into this exchange in good faith and willing to trust my claims, then any chance of reasonable conversation is gone. I'll be wrapping up my end of our conversation here, thanks.
- bserge 5y ago
  And why should you or I judge and decide on that? If their opinion is that it doesn't impact them, that's good enough.

shuntress 5y ago

Do you drink coffee?

trutannus 5y ago
Yep, and I can't wake up with out it, nor can I stop using it despite multiple attempts. Dependence is a harm of it's own.
- xphx 5y ago
  There is a not so subtle implication of your comments being voted down that those claiming HN is not an instance of social media would be well-advised to reflect on.
drdeadringer 5y ago
Do you eat food? Do you breathe air? Somehow coffee is completely different. Somehow coffee is on the same tier as tobacco or cocaine. It's not. Relax. Enjoy a cocoa.
- shuntress 5y ago
  That is exactly my point. "I don't want to stop eating food, I just want food that is not going to harm me while I eat it" "I don't want to stop breathing air, I just want air that is not going to harm me while I breath it" I don't want to cease all contact with other people. I want to interact socially in non-harmful ways.
- fortuna86 5y ago
  Food and air sustain your life, they don't create chemical dependencies.