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> Instead, 5 years later there's Conversations, "information is not trivial to find" and "check your server for compliance". If you think nothing happened in 5

> Instead, 5 years later there's Conversations, "information is not trivial to find" and "check your server for compliance". If you think nothing happened in 5 years then you're very much mistaken. As I said, the information should be more easily discoverable, and I linked you to some of the projects working on that aspect. You seem to confuse "not easily discoverable" with "doesn't exist", which are different things when it comes to the kind and amount of effort required to fix them. My own work is on Snikket, which is a project working on XMPP clients for all platforms with a modern feature baseline. My belief is that simply telling people to "use XMPP", and requiring them to find appropriate clients and servers is solving the problem from the wrong end. XMPP-based solutions should be attractive to people in their own right. Whether we like it or not, the average person does not (and will never) choose to use software because it "uses open standards".

dmitriid 5y ago
> You seem to confuse "not easily discoverable" with "doesn't exist" From the point of users this: "information is not trivial to find right now for end users" is equal to "doesn't exist". This is true for both clients and servers. When I asked "what if I don't want to run my own server", the very first link you provided me with was "Check the compliance of your server". Wat? I immediately closed the page, and I will never come back to it. These things simply do not exist for anyone except hardcore geeks who are willing to figure all this out. 20 years ago when I was young I would do that. Now I will just open Telegram. > My belief is that simply telling people to "use XMPP", and requiring them to find appropriate clients and servers is solving the problem from the wrong end. XMPP-based solutions should be attractive to people in their own right. Yes! That's so very true.

dmitriid 5y ago

> You seem to confuse "not easily discoverable" with "doesn't exist" From the point of users this: "information is not trivial to find right now for end users" is equal to "doesn't exist". This is true for both clients and servers. When I asked "what if I don't want to run my own server", the very first link you provided me with was "Check the compliance of your server". Wat? I immediately closed the page, and I will never come back to it. These things simply do not exist for anyone except hardcore geeks who are willing to figure all this out. 20 years ago when I was young I would do that. Now I will just open Telegram. > My belief is that simply telling people to "use XMPP", and requiring them to find appropriate clients and servers is solving the problem from the wrong end. XMPP-based solutions should be attractive to people in their own right. Yes! That's so very true.