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Amazon is pushing for more defense contracts: https://www.wsj.com/articles/tech-industry-seeks-bigger-role-in-defense-not-everyone-is-on-board-11631019600 https

Amazon is pushing for more defense contracts: https://www.wsj.com/articles/tech-industry-seeks-bigger-role-in-defense-not-everyone-is-on-board-11631019600 https://www.wsj.com/articles/tech-industry-seeks-bigger-role... To do that you need engineers who can hold a security clearance. To hold a security clearance you can't violate federal law despite what your state laws say is legal. I think this is about more than warehouse employees.

throwaway6734 5y ago
Afaict the process has gotten way more lax. Some friends have mine have gotten cleared with heavy mj use up to a few months before applying for clearance. They did have to stop using though
- delecti 5y ago
  > They did have to stop using though That is kinda the point. At this point I'm very accustomed to not getting drug tested for jobs, and I'm not willing to give that up. I don't even smoke that much; I'd be willing to give it up for the right reason, but defense contractor clearance wouldn't cut it.
  - mfer 5y ago
    If you get a US security clearance there is a lot you may have to give up. For example, someone who gambles a lot at casinos and lives paycheck to paycheck may get denied for their financial reasons. There's nothing illegal there. It's not about following the law. They don't want to give clearance to people who could get into situations where they could be bribed or taken advantage of and misuse of a clearance is used to wipe away a debt.
moron4hire 5y ago
I know a lot of pothead security clearance holders. Hasn't really been a restriction in over a decade.
- gwbas1c 5y ago
  It's extremely easy to pass a drug test if you have few hours notice. All it requires is some basic googling skills.
  - caymanjim 5y ago
    It's not about drug tests; most of the time there is no testing. If you admit to actively using drugs, you'll be denied. If you lie and they find out, you'll be denied and barred forever. They're going to talk to your friends and neighbors and there's a good chance they'll find out. And your claims about beating tests on a few hours' notice are nonsense.
    - Jerrrry 5y ago
      They don't talk to anyone, and you can beat any urine test with full bladder of coffee/water.
      - moron4hire 5y ago
        They definitely talk to absolutely everyone you list on your application form. And superhydration is going to, at the very least, get you a second drug test a week later. THC resides in your body's fat cells, so it takes quite a long time before it fully clears your system to no longer be detectable in a drug test.
      - wil421 5y ago
        Complete BS. I had to do a public trust verification (SF85P) last year and they spoke to 3 friends, a neighbor, 3 old co workers, former and current boss, a coworker in the same office as me, and a former land lord. They even told me of it wasn’t for COVID all would be in person.
    - leroy_masochist 5y ago
      > They're going to talk to your friends and neighbors and there's a good chance they'll find out. They're going to talk to the three friends you listed on your SF-86 and your former landlords at the address listed. Many people seem to think that SSBI investigations consist of, like, the Stasi slapping people around in basements trying to find out what people are hiding. Far from it. If you don't have an arrest record and were discreet about your prior drug use (ie not putting it on social media) and your friends have common sense, you have little to worry about. The process is a lot more about confirming that you lived where you said you did / had no contact with foreign agents than it is about uncovering prior drug use. Anecdotally, it is very common for people to get a waiver for "occasional experimentation with marijuana in high school" when in fact they were enthusiastic recreational drug users for years. As far as drug use goes, SSBIs are essentially a Potemkin process. Given the extent to which selective amnesia is prevalent among SCI applicants, I think it would make sense to reform the process so that applicants can be fully transparent and forgiven for their past transgressions as long as they piss clean.
johncessna 5y ago
There are plenty of other things you can have done that are illegal and still get a clearance. Without touching if it's a good policy or not, drug use is a black mark during a clearance investigation not because it's illegal, but because you're using drugs. I wouldn't be surprised if these agencies continue to disallow clearances due to legal drug use. Depending on the level of clearance, alcohol use, poor finances, multiple passports, and having contacts with foreign nationals from certain countries - all legal activities - are reasons for a clearance being denied.
- gh02t 5y ago
  Yeah I asked someone in human reliability about this not too long ago, she said even if it's made legal they are unlikely to change the restrictions any time soon. She said (and I'm not commenting on the validity of this line of reasoning myself, nor was she really) the argument is along the same lines of why you're also not supposed to be routinely getting wasted drinking -- it shows a pattern of unreliable behavior and there is also a risk of disclosing information when intoxicated. She did say that they might slightly relax the restrictions if weed was made fully legal.
  - namlem 5y ago
    Which is still incredibly unscientific. Cannabis doesn't even really lower inhibitions.
    - edgyquant 5y ago
      Do you have a source for this?
- frankbreetz 5y ago
  If you admit to using weed in the past year, they will make you wait to get your clearance. As long as you don't have any DUIs or legal trouble from drinking you will not be restricted. Unless you say something like "I have a serious drinking problem and get blackout drunk every night" Drinking is not an issue, even people who do drink too much will consider themselves moderate drinkers, even if they are lying to themselves. So, admission to responsible weed usage and responsible alcohol usage will get different results. I have a clearance and almost all of my coworkers talked openly about drinking too much on occasion, but no one would say they touched weed
dr-detroit 5y ago
I disagree. Cheating the pee tests is trivially easy because they don't watch you go for preemployment drug screens. Amazon wants to ship pot because it is like currency markets. Weed is cheap and overtaxed in some states while it just got legalized in others so demand is high and margins are way bigger. The industry is growing and banks will be next everybody will have to get on board.
sk2020 5y ago
Amazon is probably already distributing large quantities of cannabis. I don’t think Amazon is actually concerned with their hired help, but I think they are very concerned with legal risk of shipping drugs which may be disguised as other products.
- UnpossibleJim 5y ago
  Amazon can't ship or sell marijuana because even though it's legal on a state level, it's still illegal on a federal level, which means banks won't process payments that are made through federally illegal means. The local dispensaries have issues with having huge amounts of cash on hand because they can't use banks, so far as I know, because of RICO laws.
  - sk2020 5y ago
    Sellers aren’t going to list the product as drugs. It may be a suspiciously priced curio or garment that the buyer knows is something else.
5555624 5y ago
There's a difference between holding a clearance and getting a clearance. Most of the responses deal with getting one and how long it has been since using illegal drugs. >To hold a security clearance you can't violate federal law despite what your state laws say is legal Exactly. If you are a federal employee, you cannot simply use marijuana because the state made it legal. Earlier this year, the Office of Personnel Management "reiterated that the mandates of Executive Order 12564, Drug-Free Federal Workplace, prohibiting the use of illegal drugs on or off duty remain in effect for all federal employees."

throwaway6734 5y ago

Afaict the process has gotten way more lax. Some friends have mine have gotten cleared with heavy mj use up to a few months before applying for clearance. They did have to stop using though

delecti 5y ago
> They did have to stop using though That is kinda the point. At this point I'm very accustomed to not getting drug tested for jobs, and I'm not willing to give that up. I don't even smoke that much; I'd be willing to give it up for the right reason, but defense contractor clearance wouldn't cut it.
- mfer 5y ago
  If you get a US security clearance there is a lot you may have to give up. For example, someone who gambles a lot at casinos and lives paycheck to paycheck may get denied for their financial reasons. There's nothing illegal there. It's not about following the law. They don't want to give clearance to people who could get into situations where they could be bribed or taken advantage of and misuse of a clearance is used to wipe away a debt.

moron4hire 5y ago

I know a lot of pothead security clearance holders. Hasn't really been a restriction in over a decade.

gwbas1c 5y ago
It's extremely easy to pass a drug test if you have few hours notice. All it requires is some basic googling skills.
- caymanjim 5y ago
  It's not about drug tests; most of the time there is no testing. If you admit to actively using drugs, you'll be denied. If you lie and they find out, you'll be denied and barred forever. They're going to talk to your friends and neighbors and there's a good chance they'll find out. And your claims about beating tests on a few hours' notice are nonsense.
  - Jerrrry 5y ago
    They don't talk to anyone, and you can beat any urine test with full bladder of coffee/water.
    - moron4hire 5y ago
      They definitely talk to absolutely everyone you list on your application form. And superhydration is going to, at the very least, get you a second drug test a week later. THC resides in your body's fat cells, so it takes quite a long time before it fully clears your system to no longer be detectable in a drug test.
    - wil421 5y ago
      Complete BS. I had to do a public trust verification (SF85P) last year and they spoke to 3 friends, a neighbor, 3 old co workers, former and current boss, a coworker in the same office as me, and a former land lord. They even told me of it wasn’t for COVID all would be in person.
  - leroy_masochist 5y ago
    > They're going to talk to your friends and neighbors and there's a good chance they'll find out. They're going to talk to the three friends you listed on your SF-86 and your former landlords at the address listed. Many people seem to think that SSBI investigations consist of, like, the Stasi slapping people around in basements trying to find out what people are hiding. Far from it. If you don't have an arrest record and were discreet about your prior drug use (ie not putting it on social media) and your friends have common sense, you have little to worry about. The process is a lot more about confirming that you lived where you said you did / had no contact with foreign agents than it is about uncovering prior drug use. Anecdotally, it is very common for people to get a waiver for "occasional experimentation with marijuana in high school" when in fact they were enthusiastic recreational drug users for years. As far as drug use goes, SSBIs are essentially a Potemkin process. Given the extent to which selective amnesia is prevalent among SCI applicants, I think it would make sense to reform the process so that applicants can be fully transparent and forgiven for their past transgressions as long as they piss clean.

johncessna 5y ago

There are plenty of other things you can have done that are illegal and still get a clearance. Without touching if it's a good policy or not, drug use is a black mark during a clearance investigation not because it's illegal, but because you're using drugs. I wouldn't be surprised if these agencies continue to disallow clearances due to legal drug use. Depending on the level of clearance, alcohol use, poor finances, multiple passports, and having contacts with foreign nationals from certain countries - all legal activities - are reasons for a clearance being denied.

gh02t 5y ago
Yeah I asked someone in human reliability about this not too long ago, she said even if it's made legal they are unlikely to change the restrictions any time soon. She said (and I'm not commenting on the validity of this line of reasoning myself, nor was she really) the argument is along the same lines of why you're also not supposed to be routinely getting wasted drinking -- it shows a pattern of unreliable behavior and there is also a risk of disclosing information when intoxicated. She did say that they might slightly relax the restrictions if weed was made fully legal.
- namlem 5y ago
  Which is still incredibly unscientific. Cannabis doesn't even really lower inhibitions.
  - edgyquant 5y ago
    Do you have a source for this?
frankbreetz 5y ago
If you admit to using weed in the past year, they will make you wait to get your clearance. As long as you don't have any DUIs or legal trouble from drinking you will not be restricted. Unless you say something like "I have a serious drinking problem and get blackout drunk every night" Drinking is not an issue, even people who do drink too much will consider themselves moderate drinkers, even if they are lying to themselves. So, admission to responsible weed usage and responsible alcohol usage will get different results. I have a clearance and almost all of my coworkers talked openly about drinking too much on occasion, but no one would say they touched weed

dr-detroit 5y ago

I disagree. Cheating the pee tests is trivially easy because they don't watch you go for preemployment drug screens. Amazon wants to ship pot because it is like currency markets. Weed is cheap and overtaxed in some states while it just got legalized in others so demand is high and margins are way bigger. The industry is growing and banks will be next everybody will have to get on board.

sk2020 5y ago

Amazon is probably already distributing large quantities of cannabis. I don’t think Amazon is actually concerned with their hired help, but I think they are very concerned with legal risk of shipping drugs which may be disguised as other products.

UnpossibleJim 5y ago
Amazon can't ship or sell marijuana because even though it's legal on a state level, it's still illegal on a federal level, which means banks won't process payments that are made through federally illegal means. The local dispensaries have issues with having huge amounts of cash on hand because they can't use banks, so far as I know, because of RICO laws.
- sk2020 5y ago
  Sellers aren’t going to list the product as drugs. It may be a suspiciously priced curio or garment that the buyer knows is something else.

5555624 5y ago

There's a difference between holding a clearance and getting a clearance. Most of the responses deal with getting one and how long it has been since using illegal drugs. >To hold a security clearance you can't violate federal law despite what your state laws say is legal Exactly. If you are a federal employee, you cannot simply use marijuana because the state made it legal. Earlier this year, the Office of Personnel Management "reiterated that the mandates of Executive Order 12564, Drug-Free Federal Workplace, prohibiting the use of illegal drugs on or off duty remain in effect for all federal employees."