4 ms·

> The states that have approved Pot have shown already that Pot is not a problem at all. I don't agree. I live in a legal state and there a plethora of issues

> The states that have approved Pot have shown already that Pot is not a problem at all. I don't agree. I live in a legal state and there a plethora of issues caused by it being legal. A lot of these are due to the fact that people flock here because not everywhere has legalized yet. The problems are probably less of an issue than things caused by tobacco and alcohol. However, they are certainly present.

bovermyer 5y ago
That sounds like an intoxicant tourism problem rather than a specifically cannabis problem.
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  Yeah and that's part of legalizing it just like allowing anything. Allowing alcohol means you will deal with drunk drivers killing people. There are downsides to having legalized cannabis. Sorry that upsets you. I'm not advocating for it to be illegal.
  - bovermyer 5y ago
    It doesn't upset me - you're thinking of the other commenter, I think. I was just clarifying a little.
nickthegreek 5y ago
What are the issues? Increased tax revenue for towns from outside buyers? Are these new issues that didn't exist in the black market? I can see issues with security/robbing facilities that are cash rich due to issues depositing the cash due to federal regulations... but that's not the dispensaries fault.
- mschuster91 5y ago
  > Increased tax revenue for towns from outside buyers? Are these new issues that didn't exist in the black market? For what it's worth, the Netherlands allow communities to ban foreigners from coffee shops - Maastricht already has such a ban, and proposals to do the same in Amsterdam crop up regularly (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/11/foreigners-face-ban-from-amsterdams-cannabis-cafes https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/11/foreigners-fac...). The issue is that especially in border-adjacent cities coffee shops attract a lot of "weed tourism": people coming only for the weed but not spending much outside of the coffee shops, causing traffic issues and the likes, that are nowhere near appropriately covered by the pot taxes. We Germans have a similar issue with prostitution - Germany is widely seen as the "biggest brothel of Europe", so especially French clients (where "thanks" to the "nordic model" prostitution is criminalized) overrun the brothels close to the border. In Czechia, prostitution is legal as well - but vastly cheaper than in Germany, which means a lot of Germans living near the border go there.
- tartoran 5y ago
  The main issue is abuse which is not limited to pot of course and seems to cause fewer issues than alcohol, but it’s nonetheless something not to be proud of.
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  I don't have actual data because it's not available. Anecdotally, I have friends/family who teach and there seems to be a definite increase in the amount of kids smoking. It's much easier for them to get their hands on it now. Just like having legal alcohol, they send in their older friends to buy cannabis. Additionally, you have a lot of families moving in just to grow pot and they'll come in buy up some sort of low end desert property shack thinking they can grow a bunch of plants all over their property legally. They don't take care of their kids at all so there's a large influx of kids just wandering around without parents, missing school etc. because their parents are high all the time. I see people smoking and jumping in vehicles regularly, they also appear to think it's just fine to drive intoxicated since it's not alcohol. Then you have the whole cannabis oil vape pen issue which is sort of a downstream effect. I'm not advocating for keeping it illegal. I'm just pointing out it's not all rainbows and unicorns when you legalize it. Supposedly the tax money goes to schools but I've yet to witness any actual improvements from it. Like most things, they'll say they're going to put taxes in one place and then pull other money away from them. There's also this strange pervasive idea that no harm can come from cannabis. There are multiple studies showing it isn't good for adolescents.
yao420 5y ago
What exactly are these issues and the supporting evidence?
- aurizon 5y ago
  The issues are downstream, people in jails or unable to get jobs because they were caught with Pot in 1964. Some statistics show up tp 50% of jailed people are due to Pot - true, most get out and most carry on OK, but the record blights their lives - it should not. There are millions of these blighted people - disproportionally Black because the system favored whites at all levels - better defence via $$, as well as pure naked racism. Be done with it, free these millions of all races from this persistent stigma.
mnd999 5y ago
That shouldn’t be the test though. I’m not surprised that legalising pot caused issues, of course it would. The question should be are those issues worse than the well-documented problems caused by it being illegal.
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  Strawman. Nowhere am I advocating for it to stay illegal.
aurizon 5y ago
Well, when prohibition came in they flocked for a last drink - then the big league bootleggers came - bigger problem. Then it was legalised again - big problem again. Then it abated to the steady state drunks and road deaths. When it is legal these local clusters at borders will go away - then it will be the abuser problem, I prefer the Pot abuser problem to the alcohol abuser problem. Pot causes almost none of the tobacco cancer problems as most smoke less and the smoke has been verified as less cancerous(low, but not zero) Vaping will be non cancerous and non dangerous for nicotine or pot - it was the added crap that caused the deaths. So I thinka safer steady state will emerge, Pot and 'tobacco essence' = nicotine via vape or lozenge will emerge as a safer high than smoking tobacco and drinking alcohol. Look at Russia, to some degree brought down by alcohol - they had and still have a HUGE booze problem at all levels of their society.

bovermyer 5y ago

That sounds like an intoxicant tourism problem rather than a specifically cannabis problem.

CountDrewku 5y ago
Yeah and that's part of legalizing it just like allowing anything. Allowing alcohol means you will deal with drunk drivers killing people. There are downsides to having legalized cannabis. Sorry that upsets you. I'm not advocating for it to be illegal.
- bovermyer 5y ago
  It doesn't upset me - you're thinking of the other commenter, I think. I was just clarifying a little.

nickthegreek 5y ago

What are the issues? Increased tax revenue for towns from outside buyers? Are these new issues that didn't exist in the black market? I can see issues with security/robbing facilities that are cash rich due to issues depositing the cash due to federal regulations... but that's not the dispensaries fault.

mschuster91 5y ago
> Increased tax revenue for towns from outside buyers? Are these new issues that didn't exist in the black market? For what it's worth, the Netherlands allow communities to ban foreigners from coffee shops - Maastricht already has such a ban, and proposals to do the same in Amsterdam crop up regularly (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/11/foreigners-face-ban-from-amsterdams-cannabis-cafes https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/11/foreigners-fac...). The issue is that especially in border-adjacent cities coffee shops attract a lot of "weed tourism": people coming only for the weed but not spending much outside of the coffee shops, causing traffic issues and the likes, that are nowhere near appropriately covered by the pot taxes. We Germans have a similar issue with prostitution - Germany is widely seen as the "biggest brothel of Europe", so especially French clients (where "thanks" to the "nordic model" prostitution is criminalized) overrun the brothels close to the border. In Czechia, prostitution is legal as well - but vastly cheaper than in Germany, which means a lot of Germans living near the border go there.
tartoran 5y ago
The main issue is abuse which is not limited to pot of course and seems to cause fewer issues than alcohol, but it’s nonetheless something not to be proud of.
CountDrewku 5y ago
I don't have actual data because it's not available. Anecdotally, I have friends/family who teach and there seems to be a definite increase in the amount of kids smoking. It's much easier for them to get their hands on it now. Just like having legal alcohol, they send in their older friends to buy cannabis. Additionally, you have a lot of families moving in just to grow pot and they'll come in buy up some sort of low end desert property shack thinking they can grow a bunch of plants all over their property legally. They don't take care of their kids at all so there's a large influx of kids just wandering around without parents, missing school etc. because their parents are high all the time. I see people smoking and jumping in vehicles regularly, they also appear to think it's just fine to drive intoxicated since it's not alcohol. Then you have the whole cannabis oil vape pen issue which is sort of a downstream effect. I'm not advocating for keeping it illegal. I'm just pointing out it's not all rainbows and unicorns when you legalize it. Supposedly the tax money goes to schools but I've yet to witness any actual improvements from it. Like most things, they'll say they're going to put taxes in one place and then pull other money away from them. There's also this strange pervasive idea that no harm can come from cannabis. There are multiple studies showing it isn't good for adolescents.

yao420 5y ago

What exactly are these issues and the supporting evidence?

aurizon 5y ago
The issues are downstream, people in jails or unable to get jobs because they were caught with Pot in 1964. Some statistics show up tp 50% of jailed people are due to Pot - true, most get out and most carry on OK, but the record blights their lives - it should not. There are millions of these blighted people - disproportionally Black because the system favored whites at all levels - better defence via $$, as well as pure naked racism. Be done with it, free these millions of all races from this persistent stigma.

mnd999 5y ago

That shouldn’t be the test though. I’m not surprised that legalising pot caused issues, of course it would. The question should be are those issues worse than the well-documented problems caused by it being illegal.

CountDrewku 5y ago
Strawman. Nowhere am I advocating for it to stay illegal.

aurizon 5y ago

Well, when prohibition came in they flocked for a last drink - then the big league bootleggers came - bigger problem. Then it was legalised again - big problem again. Then it abated to the steady state drunks and road deaths. When it is legal these local clusters at borders will go away - then it will be the abuser problem, I prefer the Pot abuser problem to the alcohol abuser problem. Pot causes almost none of the tobacco cancer problems as most smoke less and the smoke has been verified as less cancerous(low, but not zero) Vaping will be non cancerous and non dangerous for nicotine or pot - it was the added crap that caused the deaths. So I thinka safer steady state will emerge, Pot and 'tobacco essence' = nicotine via vape or lozenge will emerge as a safer high than smoking tobacco and drinking alcohol. Look at Russia, to some degree brought down by alcohol - they had and still have a HUGE booze problem at all levels of their society.