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My problem with all methodologies are the lack of coherent stakeholders on the business side. Product owners are a poor proxy at best but at least they're a def

My problem with all methodologies are the lack of coherent stakeholders on the business side. Product owners are a poor proxy at best but at least they're a definitive throat to choke when things go awry. Being told for the 20th engagement in a row that the right people for a conversation about a feature can't spare the time to be in the the room to workshop it or provide meaningful feedback (so why are you paying $300/hr for my time?) is de-motivating. As a rule I find most human beings exceptionally poor at thinking structurally and critically about why they do anything at all, and strategies or behaviors which would improve those things either by outcome or experience. They just go on raging their fists in the dark and at the same time running away from any daylight that might make them change.

scott_middleton 5y ago
The last line gave me a chuckle.
noptd 5y ago
After a certain point in their careers, it really does feel like a large percentage of people stop asking "why?" when faced with new requirements, standards, etc. Maybe it's just a natural part of getting older, as habits and perspectives become more ingrained over the course of time.
- reaperducer 5y ago
  I'm not sure it's about getting older, but it does seem somehow related to age. In my experience, the people who won't ask "why" aren't simply "older." They're the in-between. Young people ask "why." But also older people, maybe 50+. My experience has been that it's the project managers and their overlords in the 25-49 range that seem to think they know everything and everyone else is unclued. The young ask "why" because they're curious and want to learn. The old as "why" because they want to understand what's behind decisions. And managers hate explaining themselves.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> My problem with all methodologies are the lack of coherent stakeholders on the business side. For internal or contracted apps, there is usually a well-defined customer. There may be other stakeholders, too, but that first one is the key. If the problem is getting them (or their representative, and not a dev side proxy, engaged, well, that's the problem you need to fix.) “Agile” methodologies that try to sidestep this, e.g., by designating a IT org proxy are broken in the same way as “Marxist” methodologies that try to sidestep the requirement for mature capitalist development and proletarian class consciousness, e.g., via an privileged revolutionary vanguard. > Product owners are a poor proxy at best but at least they're a definitive throat to choke when things go awry. That's pretty much exactly what is not needed. > Being told for the 20th engagement in a row that the right people for a conversation about a feature can't spare the time to be in the the room to workshop it or provide meaningful feedback (so why are you paying $300/hr for my time?) is de-motivating. Sure, and if that is happening often then prioritization isn't fitting business priorities, even if it is fitting what business says are their priorities.

scott_middleton 5y ago

The last line gave me a chuckle.

noptd 5y ago

After a certain point in their careers, it really does feel like a large percentage of people stop asking "why?" when faced with new requirements, standards, etc. Maybe it's just a natural part of getting older, as habits and perspectives become more ingrained over the course of time.

reaperducer 5y ago
I'm not sure it's about getting older, but it does seem somehow related to age. In my experience, the people who won't ask "why" aren't simply "older." They're the in-between. Young people ask "why." But also older people, maybe 50+. My experience has been that it's the project managers and their overlords in the 25-49 range that seem to think they know everything and everyone else is unclued. The young ask "why" because they're curious and want to learn. The old as "why" because they want to understand what's behind decisions. And managers hate explaining themselves.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> My problem with all methodologies are the lack of coherent stakeholders on the business side. For internal or contracted apps, there is usually a well-defined customer. There may be other stakeholders, too, but that first one is the key. If the problem is getting them (or their representative, and not a dev side proxy, engaged, well, that's the problem you need to fix.) “Agile” methodologies that try to sidestep this, e.g., by designating a IT org proxy are broken in the same way as “Marxist” methodologies that try to sidestep the requirement for mature capitalist development and proletarian class consciousness, e.g., via an privileged revolutionary vanguard. > Product owners are a poor proxy at best but at least they're a definitive throat to choke when things go awry. That's pretty much exactly what is not needed. > Being told for the 20th engagement in a row that the right people for a conversation about a feature can't spare the time to be in the the room to workshop it or provide meaningful feedback (so why are you paying $300/hr for my time?) is de-motivating. Sure, and if that is happening often then prioritization isn't fitting business priorities, even if it is fitting what business says are their priorities.