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As a Danish employer, it's easier to just join a collective agreement which is vetted by the lawyers specialized in employment law of both the employer's and la

As a Danish employer, it's easier to just join a collective agreement which is vetted by the lawyers specialized in employment law of both the employer's and labour unions, and use industry standard contracts, than to do individual negotiations with every employee while running the risk of negotiating a deal which doesn't hold up in the court of law. Collective agreements save enormous amounts of administrative time and legal headaches for employers. Yes, the employer's have their own unions. What really sets the Danish labour market apart from the rest of the Nordics, is how much easier it is to let employee's go when there's good reason or fire them when necessary.

illuminati1911 5y ago
” What really sets the Danish labour market apart from the rest of the Nordics, is how much easier it is to let employee's go when there's good reason or fire them when necessary.” Thanks for sharing this, I had no idea. In Finland it’s pretty much impossible to fire someone unless they spend 100% of their time trying to destroy the company they work for.
- Gravityloss 5y ago
  Finnish jobs typically have a trial period like six months. It's easy to not continue from that to permanent employment / I've heard that happen in IT business. People are also regularly fired for basically company financial reasons. So I would not say parent poster is strictly correct.
  - pasiaj 5y ago
    Gravityloss is correct. It is quite trivial to fire a person if there are economic grounds for doing so. It is somewhat complicated and laborious, tho, to get rid of an employee if they are underperforming or acting in a toxic manner.
    - rob74 5y ago
      If it's like in Germany, you can reduce your staff for economic reasons - however there are rules to follow: if the choice is between a junior dev you hired last year or another who has been with the company for 10 years, you'll have to let the junior dev go first...
  - beebeepka 5y ago
    3-6 month trial/probation is fairly common. While it does help both sides familiarise with each other, it can't prevent a conflict in the future. I've dealt with long time (15 years) employees suddenly or gradually going completely nuts - refusing to perform any meaningful task, accusing others of abuse and just playing dirty for months, sometimes years. It's no fun, I tell you what! 6 months trials are useful but to a point
    - ljm 5y ago
      Letting people go after a probation review is probably more likely to result in changing the hiring process, rather than treating it as some kind of initial warranty period. You don't want to invest in hiring and onboarding someone if you're outright saying they might not make it beyond 3/6 months.
    - martin_bech 5y ago
      Denmark is 3 months probation, where you can fire with 1 day notice. You can fire people for underperforming, but you have to warn them first, and tell them what they need to change.
martin_a 5y ago
> how much easier it is to let employee's go when there's good reason or fire them when necessary. Like what are the barriers for this, normally? In Germany there's the so called "fristlose Kündigung" where you can immediately be fired when you steal or something alike. How does this compare to Denmark?
- tokai 5y ago
  If you break the contract you signed when being employed you can be fired with immediate effect. Other than that you can always be fired without any reason, but you have some period where you will stay in employment. Its different from profession to profession. But one month, rising to three months with seniority, is normal. Usually you can also be fired at will the first month of your employment.
  - Scandiravian 5y ago
    Writing that you can always be fired without any reason is not entirely correct. For anyone who's covered by "funktionærloven" (a law that covers pretty much all white collar employees who's not hired under a collective bargain), the employer can only terminate without cause in the first twelve months of employment. Since an employee has a 3 month notice period after 6 months of employment, this means that after 9 months (3 months notice makes the employment longer than 12 months) the employer needs to provide reasonable cause for termination.
    - tokai 5y ago
      You are right of cause. I wrote "without any reason" bcs the reasonable cause for termination can be very loose. Bad fit, competence not needed etc. are enough. Unless the true reason is an illegal one like pregnancy and so on.
      - Scandiravian 5y ago
        I think it depends on the industry Generally an employee must have received at least one written warning before termination with a description of what they need to change and how. After that the employee needs to have enough time to make those adjustments before an employer can terminate This is of course very dependent on what the warning is about. If an employee is showing up hours too late and is asked to be at the office on time, then an employer is (for the most part) allowed to fire them if they show up late the following day If on the other hand the warning is about something like performance, then the employee has to have time to actually "perform" before they can be terminated Anecdotally I've noticed an increasing amount of my colleagues who do not step up for themselves when employers break these agreements This has emboldened some companies to be a bit too creative with their interpretation of the law because they think they can get away with it, so the type of "cause" you're describing definitely happens more than it should
tibiahurried 5y ago
If I am not mistaken, when an employer let people go they should also pay what 3 months of full paycheck? It is easier to let people go, but also expensive.
- martin_bech 5y ago
  Depends on how long they have been employed. Been working 5 months, its only 1 month, 2 years and 9 months, its 3 months, and continues till you reach 6 months. But that period, you will often have to still work.. so if you are let go, with 3 months, you have to work, but can go look for other work etc. (Sometimes you dont have to work, thats up to the employer)
  - tibiahurried 5y ago
    basically they can't fire people at will, but you have to give three months notice. Sounds like enough time to find another job.

illuminati1911 5y ago

” What really sets the Danish labour market apart from the rest of the Nordics, is how much easier it is to let employee's go when there's good reason or fire them when necessary.” Thanks for sharing this, I had no idea. In Finland it’s pretty much impossible to fire someone unless they spend 100% of their time trying to destroy the company they work for.

Gravityloss 5y ago
Finnish jobs typically have a trial period like six months. It's easy to not continue from that to permanent employment / I've heard that happen in IT business. People are also regularly fired for basically company financial reasons. So I would not say parent poster is strictly correct.
- pasiaj 5y ago
  Gravityloss is correct. It is quite trivial to fire a person if there are economic grounds for doing so. It is somewhat complicated and laborious, tho, to get rid of an employee if they are underperforming or acting in a toxic manner.
  - rob74 5y ago
    If it's like in Germany, you can reduce your staff for economic reasons - however there are rules to follow: if the choice is between a junior dev you hired last year or another who has been with the company for 10 years, you'll have to let the junior dev go first...
- beebeepka 5y ago
  3-6 month trial/probation is fairly common. While it does help both sides familiarise with each other, it can't prevent a conflict in the future. I've dealt with long time (15 years) employees suddenly or gradually going completely nuts - refusing to perform any meaningful task, accusing others of abuse and just playing dirty for months, sometimes years. It's no fun, I tell you what! 6 months trials are useful but to a point
  - ljm 5y ago
    Letting people go after a probation review is probably more likely to result in changing the hiring process, rather than treating it as some kind of initial warranty period. You don't want to invest in hiring and onboarding someone if you're outright saying they might not make it beyond 3/6 months.
  - martin_bech 5y ago
    Denmark is 3 months probation, where you can fire with 1 day notice. You can fire people for underperforming, but you have to warn them first, and tell them what they need to change.

martin_a 5y ago

> how much easier it is to let employee's go when there's good reason or fire them when necessary. Like what are the barriers for this, normally? In Germany there's the so called "fristlose Kündigung" where you can immediately be fired when you steal or something alike. How does this compare to Denmark?

tokai 5y ago
If you break the contract you signed when being employed you can be fired with immediate effect. Other than that you can always be fired without any reason, but you have some period where you will stay in employment. Its different from profession to profession. But one month, rising to three months with seniority, is normal. Usually you can also be fired at will the first month of your employment.
- Scandiravian 5y ago
  Writing that you can always be fired without any reason is not entirely correct. For anyone who's covered by "funktionærloven" (a law that covers pretty much all white collar employees who's not hired under a collective bargain), the employer can only terminate without cause in the first twelve months of employment. Since an employee has a 3 month notice period after 6 months of employment, this means that after 9 months (3 months notice makes the employment longer than 12 months) the employer needs to provide reasonable cause for termination.
  - tokai 5y ago
    You are right of cause. I wrote "without any reason" bcs the reasonable cause for termination can be very loose. Bad fit, competence not needed etc. are enough. Unless the true reason is an illegal one like pregnancy and so on.
    - Scandiravian 5y ago
      I think it depends on the industry Generally an employee must have received at least one written warning before termination with a description of what they need to change and how. After that the employee needs to have enough time to make those adjustments before an employer can terminate This is of course very dependent on what the warning is about. If an employee is showing up hours too late and is asked to be at the office on time, then an employer is (for the most part) allowed to fire them if they show up late the following day If on the other hand the warning is about something like performance, then the employee has to have time to actually "perform" before they can be terminated Anecdotally I've noticed an increasing amount of my colleagues who do not step up for themselves when employers break these agreements This has emboldened some companies to be a bit too creative with their interpretation of the law because they think they can get away with it, so the type of "cause" you're describing definitely happens more than it should

tibiahurried 5y ago

If I am not mistaken, when an employer let people go they should also pay what 3 months of full paycheck? It is easier to let people go, but also expensive.

martin_bech 5y ago
Depends on how long they have been employed. Been working 5 months, its only 1 month, 2 years and 9 months, its 3 months, and continues till you reach 6 months. But that period, you will often have to still work.. so if you are let go, with 3 months, you have to work, but can go look for other work etc. (Sometimes you dont have to work, thats up to the employer)
- tibiahurried 5y ago
  basically they can't fire people at will, but you have to give three months notice. Sounds like enough time to find another job.