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This comment proves that convenience trumps security and explains WhatsApp's success. I also want to note that you can use them in parallel, no need to switch

This comment proves that convenience trumps security and explains WhatsApp's success. I also want to note that you can use them in parallel, no need to switch or convince other people to do so.

nindalf 5y ago
> convenience trumps security Your comment implies that security is being traded off in favour of convenience. Could you explain how?
- d1sxeyes 5y ago
  Facebook is not transparent about how data collected through WhatsApp is used (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/02/business/facebook-whatsapp-privacy-fine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/02/business/facebook-whatsap...). WhatsApp "harvests “data linked to you,” including your device ID, for “developer’s advertising and marketing.” It also collects your contact info, user ID and device ID for ominously vague “other purposes.” (https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2021/03/06/stop-using-whatsapp-after-facebook-apple-imessage-signal-and-telegram-privacy-backlash/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2021/03/06/stop-usin...) It's true Facebook only collect metadata and can't read your actual messages normally, but that's still important. (https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/why-metadata-matters https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/why-metadata-matters)
  - tinus_hn 5y ago
    Your user ID is your phone number. If Facebook has that there really is no need for nebulous ‘device IDs’.
    - d1sxeyes 5y ago
      It depends how you're assessing the need. As an individual, no, there's no need, you can use your phone number as a user ID (although this comes up as a concern whenever Signal is mentioned as an alternative). There's also a practical factor - using device IDs allows end-to-end encryption to multiple devices without the user needing to manage keys themselves. (ie: WhatsApp can just create a new key pair for each device). As Facebook however, there is a business need to be able to identify a single user across multiple devices in order to properly track them for marketing reasons. If Facebook are unable to do this, then the business case for operating a free messaging service falls apart. Each individual needs to make their own decision as to whether they are prepared to pay the price of sharing the data that Facebook collects in exchange for simple, free-of-cost, international messaging. It's not an easy decision.

This comment proves that convenience trumps security and explains WhatsApp's success. I also want to note that you can use them in parallel, no need to switch or convince other people to do so.

nindalf 5y ago

> convenience trumps security Your comment implies that security is being traded off in favour of convenience. Could you explain how?

d1sxeyes 5y ago
Facebook is not transparent about how data collected through WhatsApp is used (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/02/business/facebook-whatsapp-privacy-fine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/02/business/facebook-whatsap...). WhatsApp "harvests “data linked to you,” including your device ID, for “developer’s advertising and marketing.” It also collects your contact info, user ID and device ID for ominously vague “other purposes.” (https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2021/03/06/stop-using-whatsapp-after-facebook-apple-imessage-signal-and-telegram-privacy-backlash/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2021/03/06/stop-usin...) It's true Facebook only collect metadata and can't read your actual messages normally, but that's still important. (https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/why-metadata-matters https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/why-metadata-matters)
- tinus_hn 5y ago
  Your user ID is your phone number. If Facebook has that there really is no need for nebulous ‘device IDs’.
  - d1sxeyes 5y ago
    It depends how you're assessing the need. As an individual, no, there's no need, you can use your phone number as a user ID (although this comes up as a concern whenever Signal is mentioned as an alternative). There's also a practical factor - using device IDs allows end-to-end encryption to multiple devices without the user needing to manage keys themselves. (ie: WhatsApp can just create a new key pair for each device). As Facebook however, there is a business need to be able to identify a single user across multiple devices in order to properly track them for marketing reasons. If Facebook are unable to do this, then the business case for operating a free messaging service falls apart. Each individual needs to make their own decision as to whether they are prepared to pay the price of sharing the data that Facebook collects in exchange for simple, free-of-cost, international messaging. It's not an easy decision.