4 ms·

Before USB-C, the universal, international standard was micro-USB and every phone manufacturer (at least in Europe) was bound by law to implement it. Apple has

Before USB-C, the universal, international standard was micro-USB and every phone manufacturer (at least in Europe) was bound by law to implement it. Apple has changed its connectors since socket interoperability became effective and they could have adopted the standard. They just purposefully ignored the consumer-respecting standards in order to keep their 40$-connector business flowing. According to European regulations, Apple's actions are strictly illegal, but if any law enforcement actually cared to protect people from wealthy corporations, we probably wouldn't have any climate change, tax evasion, planned obsolescence, science-denial smoking ads, corporate land grabs, companies stealing water supplies from local populations... As always, laws that protect the weak from the powerful are betrayed, while laws that protect the powerful from the weak are strongly enforced.

himinlomax 5y ago
Let's be charitable here, the lightning connector appears to be more durable than USB-C, at least on the device side. There's no protrusion, whereas in USB-C the contacts are on a very thin prong that çan be damaged if something small enough manages to get inside the connector.
- The_Colonel 5y ago
  There's a difference between charitable and naive. I doubt the USB-C durability is a large scale problem. I follow smartphone world quite closely and have never heard/read about USB-C issues.
  - rualca 5y ago
    > I follow smartphone world quite closely and have never heard/read about USB-C issues. This isn't an effective point as the "smartphone world" is plagued by ephemeral devices which are either susceptible to programmed obsolescence or are caught in an upgrade treadmill due to a myriad of reasons (non-replaceable batteries failing, screen problems, camera issues, hardware failing due to wear, blocked software updates, fads, etc..)
- southerntofu 5y ago
  I'm not aware of such issues, but i'm personally still running micro-USB devices only so i have zero clue. Let me know if you have links/resources on this issue. However, i'm fully aware these were not the arguments presented by Apple when they refused the USB standards. If Apple cared for durability, which they definitely don't [0], i'm sure a lot of people would appreciate that and maybe standards could be improved across the industry. The fact that Apple never cared for any form of standard that i know of [1] does not give them a lot of credit. [0] They pioneered making it very hard to replace your own battery and flipped the finger on everyone by using non-standard screws on purpose. Seriously, how can it be legal to sell a product which requires any form of tooling to change a battery?! Let's not even get started on software obsolescence on iOS/macOS... [1] USB and VGA, sure, because they were forced on them. Maybe FireWire? But even then i'm not sure it was a standard back when Apple started using it... On the software side, apart from email, DNS and WWW clients they also don't respect any standard protocols: AirPlay, iCloud, etc.
- KptMarchewa 5y ago
  https://i.imgur.com/JKhIQz7.jpg https://i.imgur.com/JKhIQz7.jpg
masklinn 5y ago
> Before USB-C, the universal, international standard was micro-USB and every phone manufacturer (at least in Europe) was bound by law to implement it. That is false. The EUC program was about PSUs, not device ports, and Apple was compliant by providing PSUs with detachable cables. Furthermore the EUC never legislated on the subject, they considered that the voluntary covenant worked well enough and no legislation was necessary. > Apple has changed its connectors since socket interoperability became effective and they could have adopted the standard. They were already complying and the “standard” at the time (micro-usb) was bad, not using it was a good thing. > They just purposefully ignored the consumer-respecting standards in order to keep their 40$-connector business flowing. At this point you’re just outright lying. > According to European regulations, Apple's actions are strictly illegal You are, and I want to make it clear that this is an objective affirmation, high as a kite.
- southerntofu 5y ago
  > The EUC program was about PSUs, not device ports Are we talking about the same thing? You seem to reference this memorandum of understanding [0] promoted by the European Commission (and signed by Apple), whereas i reference further developments such as this vote [1] which was widely advertised in the press at the time. I am unaware whether that vote was actually turned into a regulation, but i am fully aware that the European Commission is not the entity deciding on regulations in the EU (although it has way too much power to overrun the EU parliament). > the “standard” at the time (micro-usb) was bad, not using it was a good thing OK micro-USB was not the best. Still much better than using custom proprietary connectors overall. Just look at how much money/resources was saved by reusing existing cables: do you remember the hot mess we were in in the early 2000s when a phone charger broke, to find a spare compatible one?! Now i can't remember the last time i had to buy a phone charger, because there's an abundance of standard cables. It's a net win for me and my wallet, and a net win for the environment. Also, not going with a standard you deem bad is fine... if you're working to either improve the standard or replace it with another one. Which Apple never did, as they were happy to have their custom hardware which their fanatic customers would buy no matter the price. > At this point you’re just outright lying. I may be misinformed on specifics, but i'm for sure not lying. If you're impying that Apple (or any multinational corporation for that matter) are good faith, you have some research to do on how industrial capitalism operates and its actual consequences on people. >> According to European regulations, Apple's actions are strictly illegal > You are, and I want to make it clear that this is an objective affirmation, high as a kite. OK i'm high as a kite, maybe? Does that make my message wrong on every aspect? Apple has been known to and condemned for breaking many european regulations already [2] [3] [4] [5], often engaging in actions they knew were illegal. I'm not a lawyer so i can't comment on the technical legality of their Lightning connectors, but i can for sure as a european citizen say that they knowingly and willingly violated the spirit of the law to further their profit. And as a pseudonymous person on a random orange forum, i can say you should take more time to correct facts with actual sources, instead of defending evil corporations while accusing your peers of lying. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply [1] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20130923IPR20617/bring-in-a-universal-mobile-phone-charger-for-all-makes-say-meps https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20130923IP... [2] https://www.dw.com/en/apple-fined-11-billion-in-france-for-price-fixing/a-52795076 https://www.dw.com/en/apple-fined-11-billion-in-france-for-p... [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724 [4] https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/18/apple-has-finished-paying-15-billion-european-fine https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/18/apple-has-finished-paying-... [5] https://www.politico.eu/article/apple-fined-in-italy-for-misleading-consumers-over-waterproof-iphones/ https://www.politico.eu/article/apple-fined-in-italy-for-mis...

himinlomax 5y ago

Let's be charitable here, the lightning connector appears to be more durable than USB-C, at least on the device side. There's no protrusion, whereas in USB-C the contacts are on a very thin prong that çan be damaged if something small enough manages to get inside the connector.

The_Colonel 5y ago
There's a difference between charitable and naive. I doubt the USB-C durability is a large scale problem. I follow smartphone world quite closely and have never heard/read about USB-C issues.
- rualca 5y ago
  > I follow smartphone world quite closely and have never heard/read about USB-C issues. This isn't an effective point as the "smartphone world" is plagued by ephemeral devices which are either susceptible to programmed obsolescence or are caught in an upgrade treadmill due to a myriad of reasons (non-replaceable batteries failing, screen problems, camera issues, hardware failing due to wear, blocked software updates, fads, etc..)
southerntofu 5y ago
I'm not aware of such issues, but i'm personally still running micro-USB devices only so i have zero clue. Let me know if you have links/resources on this issue. However, i'm fully aware these were not the arguments presented by Apple when they refused the USB standards. If Apple cared for durability, which they definitely don't [0], i'm sure a lot of people would appreciate that and maybe standards could be improved across the industry. The fact that Apple never cared for any form of standard that i know of [1] does not give them a lot of credit. [0] They pioneered making it very hard to replace your own battery and flipped the finger on everyone by using non-standard screws on purpose. Seriously, how can it be legal to sell a product which requires any form of tooling to change a battery?! Let's not even get started on software obsolescence on iOS/macOS... [1] USB and VGA, sure, because they were forced on them. Maybe FireWire? But even then i'm not sure it was a standard back when Apple started using it... On the software side, apart from email, DNS and WWW clients they also don't respect any standard protocols: AirPlay, iCloud, etc.
KptMarchewa 5y ago
https://i.imgur.com/JKhIQz7.jpg https://i.imgur.com/JKhIQz7.jpg

masklinn 5y ago

> Before USB-C, the universal, international standard was micro-USB and every phone manufacturer (at least in Europe) was bound by law to implement it. That is false. The EUC program was about PSUs, not device ports, and Apple was compliant by providing PSUs with detachable cables. Furthermore the EUC never legislated on the subject, they considered that the voluntary covenant worked well enough and no legislation was necessary. > Apple has changed its connectors since socket interoperability became effective and they could have adopted the standard. They were already complying and the “standard” at the time (micro-usb) was bad, not using it was a good thing. > They just purposefully ignored the consumer-respecting standards in order to keep their 40$-connector business flowing. At this point you’re just outright lying. > According to European regulations, Apple's actions are strictly illegal You are, and I want to make it clear that this is an objective affirmation, high as a kite.

southerntofu 5y ago
> The EUC program was about PSUs, not device ports Are we talking about the same thing? You seem to reference this memorandum of understanding [0] promoted by the European Commission (and signed by Apple), whereas i reference further developments such as this vote [1] which was widely advertised in the press at the time. I am unaware whether that vote was actually turned into a regulation, but i am fully aware that the European Commission is not the entity deciding on regulations in the EU (although it has way too much power to overrun the EU parliament). > the “standard” at the time (micro-usb) was bad, not using it was a good thing OK micro-USB was not the best. Still much better than using custom proprietary connectors overall. Just look at how much money/resources was saved by reusing existing cables: do you remember the hot mess we were in in the early 2000s when a phone charger broke, to find a spare compatible one?! Now i can't remember the last time i had to buy a phone charger, because there's an abundance of standard cables. It's a net win for me and my wallet, and a net win for the environment. Also, not going with a standard you deem bad is fine... if you're working to either improve the standard or replace it with another one. Which Apple never did, as they were happy to have their custom hardware which their fanatic customers would buy no matter the price. > At this point you’re just outright lying. I may be misinformed on specifics, but i'm for sure not lying. If you're impying that Apple (or any multinational corporation for that matter) are good faith, you have some research to do on how industrial capitalism operates and its actual consequences on people. >> According to European regulations, Apple's actions are strictly illegal > You are, and I want to make it clear that this is an objective affirmation, high as a kite. OK i'm high as a kite, maybe? Does that make my message wrong on every aspect? Apple has been known to and condemned for breaking many european regulations already [2] [3] [4] [5], often engaging in actions they knew were illegal. I'm not a lawyer so i can't comment on the technical legality of their Lightning connectors, but i can for sure as a european citizen say that they knowingly and willingly violated the spirit of the law to further their profit. And as a pseudonymous person on a random orange forum, i can say you should take more time to correct facts with actual sources, instead of defending evil corporations while accusing your peers of lying. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply [1] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20130923IPR20617/bring-in-a-universal-mobile-phone-charger-for-all-makes-say-meps https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20130923IP... [2] https://www.dw.com/en/apple-fined-11-billion-in-france-for-price-fixing/a-52795076 https://www.dw.com/en/apple-fined-11-billion-in-france-for-p... [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724 [4] https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/18/apple-has-finished-paying-15-billion-european-fine https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/18/apple-has-finished-paying-... [5] https://www.politico.eu/article/apple-fined-in-italy-for-misleading-consumers-over-waterproof-iphones/ https://www.politico.eu/article/apple-fined-in-italy-for-mis...