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If it’s reproducible, it stops being single examples. All your other sentences are variations of “Man up”. In our society, we are used to seeing people getting

If it’s reproducible, it stops being single examples. All your other sentences are variations of “Man up”. In our society, we are used to seeing people getting at least vocal support when things get hard, harassment at work, inability to ask for higher pay, etc. We just forget that, when it’s men, the advice is “Ok maybe work gave you trust issues, but have you tried to man up? Why would you expect support from a spouse if you, yourself, aren’t self-supported?” It defeats the idea of “he for she, she for he.”

MathCodeLove 5y ago
I agree that men do face some unique social challenges, but none of those are present here. Yes, why should you expect support from a spouse if you aren't doing anything for yourself? This goes for men and women. Of course both parties should be allowed moments of vulnerability, but I thought it was pretty cleat that my statements were in the context of a long-term struggle. If my wife gets fired and has a bad week, I'll be there to support her and would expect the same in return. If she has a bad month, we'll sit down and have a serious talk about what she needs to do going forward. If the only support you're getting is "man up" then maybe you should find yourself a different social circle and/or partner. "He for she, she for he" means just that. It explicitly does not mean "He for she even when she isn't there for she, she for he even when he isn't there for he". If you expect people to "support" you whilst you make no personal effort then perhaps you should reevaluate your outlook on life as a whole. That isn't how things should work in a healthy relationship.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
vasco 5y ago
Everyone would be better off if they just tried a little bit harder to be more mentally resilient. I don't understand people who act like suggesting this is wrong. Sometimes people need help, and sometimes they just need to deal with it because nobody else can for them. Not saying this is just hiding the truth.
- pjc50 5y ago
  > Everyone would be better off if they just tried a little bit harder to be more mentally resilient. This is "have you tried not being poor" for mental health: it's not actually actionable advice.
  - goodpoint 5y ago
    Not only it's not actionable, it also implies that people are not trying hard enough, which can be quite insulting to people trying their very best.
- laurent92 5y ago
  > Everyone would be better off if they just tried a little bit harder to be more mentally resilient. Yes, but this is not the world we live in. Awareness campaigns all go towards telling people to get support and talk about their mental problems. Maybe we are weakening people, I don’t know, I’m just saying that we don’t tell people to swallow up their problems, and in France for example, we’ve raised taxes to be able to fund a one-billion-euros plan to provide various kinds of help for those soft issues for women. In fact, those very people tell men that they don’t speak enough. But when a man raises a grave issue that blocks his progress, the answer is launched automatically: “Everyone would be better off if they just tried a little bit harder to be more mentally resilient”. In other words: “k bye!” It’s not that we should or shouldn’t be resilient, it’s that we tell people to provide help to their spouse and expect help from them, only to notice that said spouse can be relied upon like a house of cards during difficult times.
watwut 5y ago
I think that sexism is more in assumption that he did not took on more cleaning, shopping or laundry after loosing the job. In this specific example, when women loose jobs, they are expected to take on most housework until they find a new job.

MathCodeLove 5y ago

I agree that men do face some unique social challenges, but none of those are present here. Yes, why should you expect support from a spouse if you aren't doing anything for yourself? This goes for men and women. Of course both parties should be allowed moments of vulnerability, but I thought it was pretty cleat that my statements were in the context of a long-term struggle. If my wife gets fired and has a bad week, I'll be there to support her and would expect the same in return. If she has a bad month, we'll sit down and have a serious talk about what she needs to do going forward. If the only support you're getting is "man up" then maybe you should find yourself a different social circle and/or partner. "He for she, she for he" means just that. It explicitly does not mean "He for she even when she isn't there for she, she for he even when he isn't there for he". If you expect people to "support" you whilst you make no personal effort then perhaps you should reevaluate your outlook on life as a whole. That isn't how things should work in a healthy relationship.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

vasco 5y ago

Everyone would be better off if they just tried a little bit harder to be more mentally resilient. I don't understand people who act like suggesting this is wrong. Sometimes people need help, and sometimes they just need to deal with it because nobody else can for them. Not saying this is just hiding the truth.

pjc50 5y ago
> Everyone would be better off if they just tried a little bit harder to be more mentally resilient. This is "have you tried not being poor" for mental health: it's not actually actionable advice.
- goodpoint 5y ago
  Not only it's not actionable, it also implies that people are not trying hard enough, which can be quite insulting to people trying their very best.
laurent92 5y ago
> Everyone would be better off if they just tried a little bit harder to be more mentally resilient. Yes, but this is not the world we live in. Awareness campaigns all go towards telling people to get support and talk about their mental problems. Maybe we are weakening people, I don’t know, I’m just saying that we don’t tell people to swallow up their problems, and in France for example, we’ve raised taxes to be able to fund a one-billion-euros plan to provide various kinds of help for those soft issues for women. In fact, those very people tell men that they don’t speak enough. But when a man raises a grave issue that blocks his progress, the answer is launched automatically: “Everyone would be better off if they just tried a little bit harder to be more mentally resilient”. In other words: “k bye!” It’s not that we should or shouldn’t be resilient, it’s that we tell people to provide help to their spouse and expect help from them, only to notice that said spouse can be relied upon like a house of cards during difficult times.

watwut 5y ago

I think that sexism is more in assumption that he did not took on more cleaning, shopping or laundry after loosing the job. In this specific example, when women loose jobs, they are expected to take on most housework until they find a new job.