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> I'm pretty fed up with throw-away culture, especially with big ticket items. I love what Framework are doing, but integrated hardware does not immediately eq

by aix1 5y ago

> I'm pretty fed up with throw-away culture, especially with big ticket items. I love what Framework are doing, but integrated hardware does not immediately equal throwaway culture (saying as something who still uses their late 2013 MacBook Pro).

eredengrin 5y ago
I think it's fair to say though that even if you don't have a throwaway culture, apple certainly has a throwaway culture and has been cultivating it in their users heavily (often by integrating their devices more than is necessary). Seems you managed to escape their wiles but many haven't.
- emsy 5y ago
  No I think there are certain aspects about Apple products that are definitely not throwaway culture, mainly software support. The hardware is also holding up really long (I also use a MBP 2013, I have several iPhone 6s users in my family). The main issue is that in case of defects, repairs are not economical and I wish Apple would recognize that. Given the long viability of hard and software, I have reasonable doubt to believe it’s a decision made to maximize profit, but rather a legacy Jony Ive sized blind spot.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- Grustaf 5y ago
  Apple makes hardware that is extremely durable, I and others use MacBooks that are getting close to 10 years old. I really doubt people will use the Framework for longer. The main reason people buy new phones and macbooks is not that the old ones stop working, it's that the new ones are desirable, they are even slicker than the one you've got.
  - NotPractical 5y ago
    AirPods die within a few years and then get tossed in the trash. Modern MacBooks aren't built like they used to be. I don't see any reason you couldn't use the Framework Laptop for that long. Just replace anything that wears down over time.
    - Grustaf 5y ago
      My 2016 MPB is in perfect shape, except the keyboard that was overly sensitive to dirt from the outset. Not sure if that counts as modern? My new MBA seems extremely well built too, not sure what you are referring to. Using my airpods pro at least 5 hours a day since they were released, also perfect shape. Like the AirPods 2 i handed down. I'm sure they won't last forever, but they've already provided a hell of a lot of usage for 200 bucks.
      - NotPractical 5y ago
        How is the battery life on your 2016 MBP? Like I said in one of my other posts, my 2019's battery is already slowly degrading. I'm at ~300 charge cycles after ~2 years of moderate usage. Apple says the battery is "consumed" after 1000 cycles[1], so it seems my battery is already 30% consumed, which doesn't make me very hopeful for the longevity of this device. I wish it was easier to find actual data on battery life of 2016+ MBP models. Googling for "how long does MacBook Pro battery last" yields mostly useless results. There's a macOS app called "Coconut Battery" that tracks battery health over time, with an optional reporting feature that uploads the data to a server for comparison purposes.[2] Unfortunately the online viewer only allows you to view data by each individual model. It might be more helpful to aggregate the data from all 2016+ models, since the battery is the same, afaik. The online viewer also doesn't show how many reports the averages are based on. I wonder if it would be possible to scrape their data, to produce an evidence-based answer to the question "how long will my MacBook probably last?", rather than relying mostly on anecdotal evidence from Mac users. Anyway, I think the idea that a $1300-$6500+ laptop ships with a glued-in, non-replaceable component that Apple themselves admits is "consumable" is just absurd, regardless of how long it may last. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201585 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201585 [2] https://www.coconut-flavour.com/ccbonline https://www.coconut-flavour.com/ccbonline
- uuddlrlr 5y ago
  iPhones have incredible longevity and Apple is still supporting the 5s (2013, gets security patches) and 6s (2014, receiving iOS 15). I also have a 2008 MacBook and it's a treat considering its age.

by aix1 5y ago

eredengrin 5y ago

I think it's fair to say though that even if you don't have a throwaway culture, apple certainly has a throwaway culture and has been cultivating it in their users heavily (often by integrating their devices more than is necessary). Seems you managed to escape their wiles but many haven't.

emsy 5y ago
No I think there are certain aspects about Apple products that are definitely not throwaway culture, mainly software support. The hardware is also holding up really long (I also use a MBP 2013, I have several iPhone 6s users in my family). The main issue is that in case of defects, repairs are not economical and I wish Apple would recognize that. Given the long viability of hard and software, I have reasonable doubt to believe it’s a decision made to maximize profit, but rather a legacy Jony Ive sized blind spot.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
Grustaf 5y ago
Apple makes hardware that is extremely durable, I and others use MacBooks that are getting close to 10 years old. I really doubt people will use the Framework for longer. The main reason people buy new phones and macbooks is not that the old ones stop working, it's that the new ones are desirable, they are even slicker than the one you've got.
- NotPractical 5y ago
  AirPods die within a few years and then get tossed in the trash. Modern MacBooks aren't built like they used to be. I don't see any reason you couldn't use the Framework Laptop for that long. Just replace anything that wears down over time.
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    My 2016 MPB is in perfect shape, except the keyboard that was overly sensitive to dirt from the outset. Not sure if that counts as modern? My new MBA seems extremely well built too, not sure what you are referring to. Using my airpods pro at least 5 hours a day since they were released, also perfect shape. Like the AirPods 2 i handed down. I'm sure they won't last forever, but they've already provided a hell of a lot of usage for 200 bucks.
    - NotPractical 5y ago
      How is the battery life on your 2016 MBP? Like I said in one of my other posts, my 2019's battery is already slowly degrading. I'm at ~300 charge cycles after ~2 years of moderate usage. Apple says the battery is "consumed" after 1000 cycles[1], so it seems my battery is already 30% consumed, which doesn't make me very hopeful for the longevity of this device. I wish it was easier to find actual data on battery life of 2016+ MBP models. Googling for "how long does MacBook Pro battery last" yields mostly useless results. There's a macOS app called "Coconut Battery" that tracks battery health over time, with an optional reporting feature that uploads the data to a server for comparison purposes.[2] Unfortunately the online viewer only allows you to view data by each individual model. It might be more helpful to aggregate the data from all 2016+ models, since the battery is the same, afaik. The online viewer also doesn't show how many reports the averages are based on. I wonder if it would be possible to scrape their data, to produce an evidence-based answer to the question "how long will my MacBook probably last?", rather than relying mostly on anecdotal evidence from Mac users. Anyway, I think the idea that a $1300-$6500+ laptop ships with a glued-in, non-replaceable component that Apple themselves admits is "consumable" is just absurd, regardless of how long it may last. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201585 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201585 [2] https://www.coconut-flavour.com/ccbonline https://www.coconut-flavour.com/ccbonline
uuddlrlr 5y ago
iPhones have incredible longevity and Apple is still supporting the 5s (2013, gets security patches) and 6s (2014, receiving iOS 15). I also have a 2008 MacBook and it's a treat considering its age.