4 ms·

Yes obviously after years of being on the losing side of the war on drugs clearly we just need to fight harder

by tayo42 5y ago

ctrlp 5y ago
Sure, let's just give up and allow deadly poison dealers free access to our markets. If we wanted to disrupt the cartel routes we could.
- tayo42 5y ago
  Chinese cartels? https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-03/DEA_GOV_DIR-008-20%20Fentanyl%20Flow%20in%20the%20United%20States_0.pdf https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-03/DEA_GOV_DIR-... > Currently, China remains the primary source of fentanyl and fentanyl-related substances trafficked through international mail and express consignment operations environment, as well as the main source for all fentanyl-related substances trafficked into the United States You don't know as much about drugs, their problems and their solutions as you think you do. Suggest you read up on it and inform your self before getting riled up.
  - nickthemagicman 5y ago
    Directly from the article you posted. "As with the Mexicali, Mexico fentanyl pill mill seized in September 2018, DEA reporting indicated the organization operating the pill mill in Mexico City is linked to the Sinaloa Cartel. " Suggest you quit being disrespectful.
    - tayo42 5y ago
      Ehh some one wants to post racist bull shit about mexico Ill prove them wrong with what ever tone i feel like. Fearmongering articles about fentnyl and talking about nonsensical ideas like how we need to "tighten borders" doesn't help anyone. Its pointless thing to want, since the drugs don't only come from Mexico. More enforcement won't help reducing drug use or reducing over does. It just keeps pushing these these further underground, where people don't get help and continue to overdose on sketchy drugs. I see no need to treat ignorant and uninformed opinions or ideas online with respect. Not even sure why your posting other then to try to start an argument, your point about some of the drugs coming from mexico is irrelevant
      - _-david-_ 5y ago
        >Ehh some one wants to post racist bull shit about mexico Ill prove them wrong with what ever tone i feel like. Saying we should have tighter borders or that a lot of drugs come through / from Mexico is not racist. If you want to convince somebody of your position don't be a complete jerk while making libelous statements.
        tayo42 5y ago
        Phrases like tightening borders, keeping people out frequently go hand in hand with racist policy. To say something like keep Mexicos border tight and keep them out is just sweeping policy against Mexicans. Why not the other borders. why not go through everyone's international mail. No it's just be tougher on Mexicans
  - ctrlp 5y ago
    You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. Good luck clearing up your confusion.
    - tayo42 5y ago
      Feel free to share a source
- biaachmonkie 5y ago
  So you acknowledge that there are markets for the drugs "deadly poison" as you call them. So would not the better solution be to regulate and tax the markets? To allow legitimate business to operate in the markets, leading to better, more consistent and safer products for consumers of those products and eliminate the black market and the criminal actors that operate in the shadows. The war on drugs has been a complete and abject failure from every angle one could objectively look at it, unless you're goals are to have overly militarized police forces that consistently violate peoples rights and brutalize and imprison non-violent people. Current policies have turned patrol officers into thugs that rob innocent people (e.g. Civil Asset Forfeiture), that use fabricated pre-textual traffic stops and unreliable and/or faked drug dog "signals" to violate peoples right against unlawful searches.
  - ctrlp 5y ago
    This is LOLbertarian nonsense. We had legal, prescription drugs that started this whole mess. A generation of American families are destroyed, but, you know, creative destruction.
- the_only_law 5y ago
  > Sure, let's just give up and allow deadly poison dealers free access to our markets. We already do this in a wide variety of industries.
otabdeveloper4 5y ago
Yes, once you understand that drug dealing is an economic crime and works as an MLM scheme. Go after the distribution channels and make sure the cost of doing business is high enough so the MLM pyramid collapses. Lots of countries have won the "war on drugs", it's not rocket science.
- tayo42 5y ago
  It's not an mlm scheme. It's people delivering a product where there is demand for it. The only countries that have limited drug use are the ones with excessive penalties, laws that are extremely unpopular in pretty much all of the western world. Another poster in this thread also high lights some of the issues with those laws. Your also making the assumption that drug use it self is a problem that needs to be solved. But it's not, lack of access to clean drugs and lack of support system for people with issues is the problem to solve.
  - otabdeveloper4 5y ago
    > It's not an mlm scheme. It absolutely is. Drug addicts finance their habit by selling to other addicts, and (crucially) recruiting new users. > Your also making the assumption that drug use it self is a problem that needs to be solved. I'm pretty sure addiction is a problem that needs to be solved by any metric.
    - tayo42 5y ago
      Where did you get this idea from? Do you use drugs?
rpmisms 5y ago
You can do both: decriminalize possession, treat addiction as an illness, and also crack down on the channels by which the product enters the market. This is the most beneficial approach, as users get help, and you have fewer new users.
- tayo42 5y ago
  You still have a black market full of bad actors. That's the problem and that doesn't get solved. Those users of decriminalized drugs still have to go somewhere to get what they want.
  - incrudible 5y ago
    Give them the drugs they need through the established channels, free of charge. Fentanyl is an extremely cheap drug when you cut the red tape. A large share - perhaps the majority - of these overdosing drug users were turned onto opioids by the medical establishment, which got away scot-free with malpractice.
    - tayo42 5y ago
      You know that no one wants fentanyl? People want heroine, Oxys, xanaxs etc. People are overdosing on fake drugs and relapses.

Yes obviously after years of being on the losing side of the war on drugs clearly we just need to fight harder

by tayo42 5y ago

Yes obviously after years of being on the losing side of the war on drugs clearly we just need to fight harder

Sure, let's just give up and allow deadly poison dealers free access to our markets. If we wanted to disrupt the cartel routes we could.

tayo42 5y ago
Chinese cartels? https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-03/DEA_GOV_DIR-008-20%20Fentanyl%20Flow%20in%20the%20United%20States_0.pdf https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-03/DEA_GOV_DIR-... > Currently, China remains the primary source of fentanyl and fentanyl-related substances trafficked through international mail and express consignment operations environment, as well as the main source for all fentanyl-related substances trafficked into the United States You don't know as much about drugs, their problems and their solutions as you think you do. Suggest you read up on it and inform your self before getting riled up.
- nickthemagicman 5y ago
  Directly from the article you posted. "As with the Mexicali, Mexico fentanyl pill mill seized in September 2018, DEA reporting indicated the organization operating the pill mill in Mexico City is linked to the Sinaloa Cartel. " Suggest you quit being disrespectful.
  - tayo42 5y ago
    Ehh some one wants to post racist bull shit about mexico Ill prove them wrong with what ever tone i feel like. Fearmongering articles about fentnyl and talking about nonsensical ideas like how we need to "tighten borders" doesn't help anyone. Its pointless thing to want, since the drugs don't only come from Mexico. More enforcement won't help reducing drug use or reducing over does. It just keeps pushing these these further underground, where people don't get help and continue to overdose on sketchy drugs. I see no need to treat ignorant and uninformed opinions or ideas online with respect. Not even sure why your posting other then to try to start an argument, your point about some of the drugs coming from mexico is irrelevant
    - _-david-_ 5y ago
      >Ehh some one wants to post racist bull shit about mexico Ill prove them wrong with what ever tone i feel like. Saying we should have tighter borders or that a lot of drugs come through / from Mexico is not racist. If you want to convince somebody of your position don't be a complete jerk while making libelous statements.
      - tayo42 5y ago
        Phrases like tightening borders, keeping people out frequently go hand in hand with racist policy. To say something like keep Mexicos border tight and keep them out is just sweeping policy against Mexicans. Why not the other borders. why not go through everyone's international mail. No it's just be tougher on Mexicans
- ctrlp 5y ago
  You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. Good luck clearing up your confusion.
  - tayo42 5y ago
    Feel free to share a source
biaachmonkie 5y ago
So you acknowledge that there are markets for the drugs "deadly poison" as you call them. So would not the better solution be to regulate and tax the markets? To allow legitimate business to operate in the markets, leading to better, more consistent and safer products for consumers of those products and eliminate the black market and the criminal actors that operate in the shadows. The war on drugs has been a complete and abject failure from every angle one could objectively look at it, unless you're goals are to have overly militarized police forces that consistently violate peoples rights and brutalize and imprison non-violent people. Current policies have turned patrol officers into thugs that rob innocent people (e.g. Civil Asset Forfeiture), that use fabricated pre-textual traffic stops and unreliable and/or faked drug dog "signals" to violate peoples right against unlawful searches.
- ctrlp 5y ago
  This is LOLbertarian nonsense. We had legal, prescription drugs that started this whole mess. A generation of American families are destroyed, but, you know, creative destruction.
the_only_law 5y ago
> Sure, let's just give up and allow deadly poison dealers free access to our markets. We already do this in a wide variety of industries.

otabdeveloper4 5y ago

Yes, once you understand that drug dealing is an economic crime and works as an MLM scheme. Go after the distribution channels and make sure the cost of doing business is high enough so the MLM pyramid collapses. Lots of countries have won the "war on drugs", it's not rocket science.

tayo42 5y ago
It's not an mlm scheme. It's people delivering a product where there is demand for it. The only countries that have limited drug use are the ones with excessive penalties, laws that are extremely unpopular in pretty much all of the western world. Another poster in this thread also high lights some of the issues with those laws. Your also making the assumption that drug use it self is a problem that needs to be solved. But it's not, lack of access to clean drugs and lack of support system for people with issues is the problem to solve.
- otabdeveloper4 5y ago
  > It's not an mlm scheme. It absolutely is. Drug addicts finance their habit by selling to other addicts, and (crucially) recruiting new users. > Your also making the assumption that drug use it self is a problem that needs to be solved. I'm pretty sure addiction is a problem that needs to be solved by any metric.
  - tayo42 5y ago
    Where did you get this idea from? Do you use drugs?

rpmisms 5y ago

You can do both: decriminalize possession, treat addiction as an illness, and also crack down on the channels by which the product enters the market. This is the most beneficial approach, as users get help, and you have fewer new users.

tayo42 5y ago
You still have a black market full of bad actors. That's the problem and that doesn't get solved. Those users of decriminalized drugs still have to go somewhere to get what they want.
- incrudible 5y ago
  Give them the drugs they need through the established channels, free of charge. Fentanyl is an extremely cheap drug when you cut the red tape. A large share - perhaps the majority - of these overdosing drug users were turned onto opioids by the medical establishment, which got away scot-free with malpractice.
  - tayo42 5y ago
    You know that no one wants fentanyl? People want heroine, Oxys, xanaxs etc. People are overdosing on fake drugs and relapses.