4 ms·

9 hours is the practical time you spend at the office. 8 hours is the theoretical time worked. In reality, it can vary from 9 hours of solid focused work (rar

by blunte 5y ago

9 hours is the practical time you spend at the office. 8 hours is the theoretical time worked. In reality, it can vary from 9 hours of solid focused work (rarely) to 3 hours of productive work. But either way, you're at the office for 9 hours. And with commute, figure 10 hours total. What's wrong with a job just being a job, for most jobs, is that it's 1/3 of your life being spent there. What excuse is there to do stupid, monotonous, or worse - counterproductive stuff for 1/3 of your life? I suppose if you're Hodor that's just fine. It's not fine for people who see potential and opportunities in every scenario. Ok, if you're a checkout clerk at a grocery store, there's not a lot of room for improvement unless you start to focus on having some good human interactions with your customers. But on HN, I figure that's not most of us. If you put the HN crowd on a road work crew, you know there would be a lot of workers who would identify significant opportunities for improving the process. Unless you're a monk, why would you do the slow and inefficient thing, excusing it as "it's just a job"? If you see a way to make your 8 hours of labor be worth twice as much to the company profit, or to the customers, or even to your joy and satisfaction, then why wouldn't you try?

randmeerkat 5y ago
I’m not saying checkout for 8 hours, or to not try. You’re right, it’s at least 1/3rd of your life, you may as well do your best. It’s just, I don’t see the reason why everyone has to be passionate about their “company” and drink the koolaid. The company doesn’t care about you, someone somewhere in some leadership position has problematic morals, the person sitting across from you may have checked out, and your life / well-being is being dominated by someone that only cares about you inasmuch as you can give them something that helps them. You didn’t elect anyone in this position to rule you and you may or may not have had any input in the colleagues that were hired to work with you. No wonder people are so unhappy and burnt out right now… So don’t give your “company” any more of your soul than you have to, and certainly don’t give them your passion. Save that for yourself, your family, your friends, your side projects. A day job is trading the best hours of your life for someone else’s gain, don’t give them more than you have to.
- blunte 5y ago
  Ah yes, my confusion at your meaning. I don't drink coolaid often. But I hate spending my mental and creative energy on dead end roads. If I were the boss, I would probably direct my staff toward a lot of dead ends as well. It's just the nature of not being omniscient. But I would hope that I would be open to the pushback from a worker who says, "Hey, I think we really should be doing Y, and here's why."
  - randmeerkat 5y ago
    The boss may have no choice… They may have a mandate from senior leadership. Really the system as it is is optimized to extract value from people from whatever level they’re at, with zero regard for their happiness, unless it can marginally impact profitability. That’s why it’s important to just do you. Maybe one day you’ll be a boss, and you’ll make a bad decision, or be forced to make your direct reports do something you disagree with. If that day comes, just know that this is just a job, if you really care, try to make you’re direct reports lives as painless as you can. Your passion can be empathy, the well being of others, in trying to make your corner of the world better, but again, don’t put it into the company. The company isn’t a real person, it doesn’t care about you, it’s a legal structure designed to maximize value extraction.
slothtrop 5y ago
> What's wrong with a job just being a job, for most jobs, is that it's 1/3 of your life being spent there. What excuse is there to do stupid, monotonous, or worse - counterproductive stuff for 1/3 of your life? I suppose if you're Hodor that's just fine. It's not fine for people who see potential and opportunities in every scenario. The excuse is the alternative is not that common. Amazing jobs are a luxury. We can tune our perspective to one of a job being "just a job", while both capitalizing on the work and leisure time as best we can, or we can think ourselves failures for having them. Seeing potential doesn't easily translate to job security. I think privileged positions render technocrats out-of-touch with the majority.
kelnos 5y ago
> What's wrong with a job just being a job, for most jobs, is that it's 1/3 of your life being spent there. What excuse is there to do stupid, monotonous, or worse - counterproductive stuff for 1/3 of your life? Absolutely agree, but there's middle ground. You can work at a job that you find fulfilling, and believe to be something positive for the world, without it being a passion. My belief is that people who are passionate about their jobs are driven to do foolish things, like stretching that 9 hour day to 10, 12, 14 hours far too often, because "X needs to get done by the weekend". Passion can also cause people to wrap way too much of their identity up in something, and if they aren't calling the shots at the job (that is, if they aren't the CEO or at least a C-level), it can really hurt their sense of self if (more like when) that job changes in ways that make them unhappy. Certainly, do something worthwhile, something that you can feel good about. But leave passion for family, friends, and hobbies. Or, if you can swing it, a company you start yourself. (It's funny, though, because I think the workforce does need passionate employees. Consider that many non-profits are staffed by people who are passionate about the non-profit's mission, yet the majority of those people won't have a say in the direction of their organization. If no one followed their passion when it came to employment, a lot of those jobs just wouldn't get done, since they often don't pay all that well. So I guess in a way I'm grateful to the people who work their passion projects, since they help the world go 'round.)

by blunte 5y ago

randmeerkat 5y ago

I’m not saying checkout for 8 hours, or to not try. You’re right, it’s at least 1/3rd of your life, you may as well do your best. It’s just, I don’t see the reason why everyone has to be passionate about their “company” and drink the koolaid. The company doesn’t care about you, someone somewhere in some leadership position has problematic morals, the person sitting across from you may have checked out, and your life / well-being is being dominated by someone that only cares about you inasmuch as you can give them something that helps them. You didn’t elect anyone in this position to rule you and you may or may not have had any input in the colleagues that were hired to work with you. No wonder people are so unhappy and burnt out right now… So don’t give your “company” any more of your soul than you have to, and certainly don’t give them your passion. Save that for yourself, your family, your friends, your side projects. A day job is trading the best hours of your life for someone else’s gain, don’t give them more than you have to.

blunte 5y ago
Ah yes, my confusion at your meaning. I don't drink coolaid often. But I hate spending my mental and creative energy on dead end roads. If I were the boss, I would probably direct my staff toward a lot of dead ends as well. It's just the nature of not being omniscient. But I would hope that I would be open to the pushback from a worker who says, "Hey, I think we really should be doing Y, and here's why."
- randmeerkat 5y ago
  The boss may have no choice… They may have a mandate from senior leadership. Really the system as it is is optimized to extract value from people from whatever level they’re at, with zero regard for their happiness, unless it can marginally impact profitability. That’s why it’s important to just do you. Maybe one day you’ll be a boss, and you’ll make a bad decision, or be forced to make your direct reports do something you disagree with. If that day comes, just know that this is just a job, if you really care, try to make you’re direct reports lives as painless as you can. Your passion can be empathy, the well being of others, in trying to make your corner of the world better, but again, don’t put it into the company. The company isn’t a real person, it doesn’t care about you, it’s a legal structure designed to maximize value extraction.

slothtrop 5y ago

> What's wrong with a job just being a job, for most jobs, is that it's 1/3 of your life being spent there. What excuse is there to do stupid, monotonous, or worse - counterproductive stuff for 1/3 of your life? I suppose if you're Hodor that's just fine. It's not fine for people who see potential and opportunities in every scenario. The excuse is the alternative is not that common. Amazing jobs are a luxury. We can tune our perspective to one of a job being "just a job", while both capitalizing on the work and leisure time as best we can, or we can think ourselves failures for having them. Seeing potential doesn't easily translate to job security. I think privileged positions render technocrats out-of-touch with the majority.

kelnos 5y ago

> What's wrong with a job just being a job, for most jobs, is that it's 1/3 of your life being spent there. What excuse is there to do stupid, monotonous, or worse - counterproductive stuff for 1/3 of your life? Absolutely agree, but there's middle ground. You can work at a job that you find fulfilling, and believe to be something positive for the world, without it being a passion. My belief is that people who are passionate about their jobs are driven to do foolish things, like stretching that 9 hour day to 10, 12, 14 hours far too often, because "X needs to get done by the weekend". Passion can also cause people to wrap way too much of their identity up in something, and if they aren't calling the shots at the job (that is, if they aren't the CEO or at least a C-level), it can really hurt their sense of self if (more like when) that job changes in ways that make them unhappy. Certainly, do something worthwhile, something that you can feel good about. But leave passion for family, friends, and hobbies. Or, if you can swing it, a company you start yourself. (It's funny, though, because I think the workforce does need passionate employees. Consider that many non-profits are staffed by people who are passionate about the non-profit's mission, yet the majority of those people won't have a say in the direction of their organization. If no one followed their passion when it came to employment, a lot of those jobs just wouldn't get done, since they often don't pay all that well. So I guess in a way I'm grateful to the people who work their passion projects, since they help the world go 'round.)