4 ms·

" yes it is literally illegal for a group of people to get together and go "fuck it this sucks" and not show up to work the next day." No, it is not (!). This

" yes it is literally illegal for a group of people to get together and go "fuck it this sucks" and not show up to work the next day." No, it is not (!). This thread is full of reality-bending statements. It's 100% legal to say 'fck it' and not show up to your job (in most cases). That was never illegal, and it still isn't either in the US or Denmark. It is not, however, possibly not legal to do so and maintain Union protections and 'not be fired'. The power to literally not do your job* and then to have the government force private companies to maintain your contract (possibly renegotiated) as opposed to just annulling it and hiring others ... is effectively a 'positive right' which is obviously going to be regulated. 'Blockading' businesses, is also a very different thing than a 'boycott' and under any reasonable circumstance would also be illegal. Go walk in front of your local Starbucks and try to stop deliveries, customers and employees from entering, and you'll find out both what the law is, and what's reasonable. 'Political Strikes' wouldn't ever be considered a form of reasonable power as well. Can you imagine Tesla employees not showing up for work for several weeks/months because they want to support/oppose Gavin Newsom's recall? And that Tesla wouldn't be allowed to let them go for now doing their work? I don't think you're going to find a lot of reasonable sympathy there. Providing for the ability for workers to shut down a company because they want to make a political statement, to damage other businesses or workers, or blockading other businesses or workers etc. shouldn't rationally be within the purview of normal Union activity.

aidenn0 5y ago
> " yes it is literally illegal for a group of people to get together and go "fuck it this sucks" and not show up to work the next day." > No, it is not (!). You are correct. It is only illegal if you are a member of a union. If you never were a member of a union, or if you terminate your membership with the union, you may then strike (at which point you obviously do so without any union protections).
- doikor 5y ago
  Ok the US system is just plain weird. Here in the Nordics there is no law protecting you from not getting fired for not showing up for work during a strike. It is all in the collective agreement that both sides agreed upon. And again the collective agreement applies to everyone union member or not. Basically if a company does so the company is fucked as support strikes will stop pretty much all basic services your company uses from happening (cleaning, trash collecting, security guards, trucking/package services, etc would just stop happening). Obviously this only works if there is relatively high level of unionization on all fields. Getting all these support strikes slapped on top of the "normal" strike is what happens when the employer breaks (or refuses to sign/join) the collective agreement (this is exactly what happened to McDonalds in Denmark)
  - jollybean 5y ago
    "Here in the Nordics there is no law protecting you from not getting fired for not showing up for work during a strike." Though I can't speak to that fact specifically, I doubt that Nordics can be fired from not showing up due to striking - because 'striking' i.e. the threat of shutting down the factory and the company not being able to dismiss everyone is the basis for the collective bargaining power. Without the 'power' there is no basis to bargain. If the company can just punt unskilled workers and hire new ones, then striking has considerably less power in most scenarios. That said it's worth pointing out the differences between Nordic Unions and traditional American Unions. The later is heavily working class (think Ford/GM plant) while the former is just as much 'White Collar' (think Teachers Union). Also, it's worth pointing out that again, technically, it's 'legal' to 'not show up for work' even if you're a member of an N/A union, it just means you'll be let go and that's that. People are pushing the wording of that far to aggressively.
    - aidenn0 5y ago
      > Though I can't speak to that fact specifically, I doubt that Nordics can be fired from not showing up due to striking - because 'striking' i.e. the threat of shutting down the factory and the company not being able to dismiss everyone is the basis for the collective bargaining power. > Without the 'power' there is no basis to bargain. My understanding is that the Nordic unions have this power via secondary boycots. If you hire non-union unskilled labor for your factory, good luck getting unionized truck drivers to haul the finished product away. > Also, it's worth pointing out that again, technically, it's 'legal' to 'not show up for work' even if you're a member of an N/A union, it just means you'll be let go and that's that. People are pushing the wording of that far to aggressively. "Illegal" and "Unlawful" are terms that are widely used. Just participating in an illegal strike is not criminal and (unless you otherwise disrupt the company's business) the only civil repercussion is loss of job (including backwages).
  - aidenn0 5y ago
    The US system is just plain weird and is a result of massive corruption at the beginning of the labor movement. Both sides did highly illegal things and whichever side was better funded (almost always the companies at the beginning) would bribe the local law-enforcement to get away with it. Eventually this led to the establishment of the NLRB and various laws that kept trying to patch any (real or perceived) current imbalance of power. It's like a sport where they make rule changes to emphasize offense, but then a few years later make other changes to fix unintended consequences of the first change, and eventually you have so many rules that the refs need extensive training. (Professional gridiron football in the US is this way; not sure if there's a Nordic equivalent)

aidenn0 5y ago

> " yes it is literally illegal for a group of people to get together and go "fuck it this sucks" and not show up to work the next day." > No, it is not (!). You are correct. It is only illegal if you are a member of a union. If you never were a member of a union, or if you terminate your membership with the union, you may then strike (at which point you obviously do so without any union protections).

doikor 5y ago
Ok the US system is just plain weird. Here in the Nordics there is no law protecting you from not getting fired for not showing up for work during a strike. It is all in the collective agreement that both sides agreed upon. And again the collective agreement applies to everyone union member or not. Basically if a company does so the company is fucked as support strikes will stop pretty much all basic services your company uses from happening (cleaning, trash collecting, security guards, trucking/package services, etc would just stop happening). Obviously this only works if there is relatively high level of unionization on all fields. Getting all these support strikes slapped on top of the "normal" strike is what happens when the employer breaks (or refuses to sign/join) the collective agreement (this is exactly what happened to McDonalds in Denmark)
- jollybean 5y ago
  "Here in the Nordics there is no law protecting you from not getting fired for not showing up for work during a strike." Though I can't speak to that fact specifically, I doubt that Nordics can be fired from not showing up due to striking - because 'striking' i.e. the threat of shutting down the factory and the company not being able to dismiss everyone is the basis for the collective bargaining power. Without the 'power' there is no basis to bargain. If the company can just punt unskilled workers and hire new ones, then striking has considerably less power in most scenarios. That said it's worth pointing out the differences between Nordic Unions and traditional American Unions. The later is heavily working class (think Ford/GM plant) while the former is just as much 'White Collar' (think Teachers Union). Also, it's worth pointing out that again, technically, it's 'legal' to 'not show up for work' even if you're a member of an N/A union, it just means you'll be let go and that's that. People are pushing the wording of that far to aggressively.
  - aidenn0 5y ago
    > Though I can't speak to that fact specifically, I doubt that Nordics can be fired from not showing up due to striking - because 'striking' i.e. the threat of shutting down the factory and the company not being able to dismiss everyone is the basis for the collective bargaining power. > Without the 'power' there is no basis to bargain. My understanding is that the Nordic unions have this power via secondary boycots. If you hire non-union unskilled labor for your factory, good luck getting unionized truck drivers to haul the finished product away. > Also, it's worth pointing out that again, technically, it's 'legal' to 'not show up for work' even if you're a member of an N/A union, it just means you'll be let go and that's that. People are pushing the wording of that far to aggressively. "Illegal" and "Unlawful" are terms that are widely used. Just participating in an illegal strike is not criminal and (unless you otherwise disrupt the company's business) the only civil repercussion is loss of job (including backwages).
- aidenn0 5y ago
  The US system is just plain weird and is a result of massive corruption at the beginning of the labor movement. Both sides did highly illegal things and whichever side was better funded (almost always the companies at the beginning) would bribe the local law-enforcement to get away with it. Eventually this led to the establishment of the NLRB and various laws that kept trying to patch any (real or perceived) current imbalance of power. It's like a sport where they make rule changes to emphasize offense, but then a few years later make other changes to fix unintended consequences of the first change, and eventually you have so many rules that the refs need extensive training. (Professional gridiron football in the US is this way; not sure if there's a Nordic equivalent)