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The baseline, preassembled model starts at $1000. Windows 10 Home, quad-core i5, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB storage, a nice 2256x1504 display, thin and light (1.3kg, 11.7

The baseline, preassembled model starts at $1000. Windows 10 Home, quad-core i5, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB storage, a nice 2256x1504 display, thin and light (1.3kg, 11.7" x 9" x 0.6"). Compare that to your other thin and light options at this pricepoint. XPS 13, $1020 * i5 * 8 GB RAM * 256 GB storage * 1920 x 1200 display * 1.2 kg, 11.6" x 7.8" x 0.6" MacBook Pro: $1300 * M1 * 8 GB RAM * 256 GB storage * 2560 x 1600 display * 1.4kg, 12" x 8.7" x 0.6" It's almost a no-brainer, even without considering the repairability, unless you like macOS. Unfortunately, not many people see repairability as a feature yet due to the toxic status quo, but this could change. I think that after brand recognition is established, this laptop could legitimately be competitive in the laptop market, and not just appeal to hardcore techies.

thinkingemote 5y ago
Early adopters, hardcore techies may love repairability but they will buy whatever comes out next. What counts is the majority of buyers after these techies. It's similar the early buyers of a Tesla who could say "ahh it will be so eco I don't have to buy another car for 10 years" and, 3 years later they buy themselves the new model as they would have normally do with a combustion engine car. Consumers first. The key point is that repairability is important and is a marketing ploy but isn't a real fundamental issue for wealthy techies. They will just get another laptop in a year or so. It's the non techies that are important, not us! It's the majority and long tail, not the early adopters that this laptop should be for!
- mjhagen 5y ago
  It's techies that advice their non-techie friends and family though.
- TeMPOraL 5y ago
  > It's the majority and long tail, not the early adopters that this laptop should be for! Why? This is the way we end up having only mass-market, lowest-common-denominator products. Not fighting to get quality tooling for our niche is one of the important reasons we don't get any.
- kelnos 5y ago
  As a "wealthy techie", I have the opposite view: as much as it's not difficult to me to buy the things I need or want, I hate the amount of waste generated by replacing things before they need to be replaced. I currently have a 2018 Dell XPS13. I really want a Framework laptop, but my current laptop works well enough (I wish it had more RAM and a larger SSD, though, which is a big part of why I want a new one), and it's hard to justify that waste, even if I can sell or give my old laptop away to someone else who needs it.
  - BoorishBears 5y ago
    > I currently have a 2018 Dell XPS13 So you're not a techie in the sense it's being used. Techie can mean someone who's an expert on technology, but when it comes to talking about techies as consumers, it's about people who always chase the latest and greatest. It's tautological, you're not a techie in this context if you don't consume new tech.
  - nunb 5y ago
    The 51nb "Thinkpads" achieve three goals you may find useful: reuse, upgrade & repairability. In effect, you are recycling while upgrading! In addition to repurposing some of the old electronics & the entire chassis, they have massive performance, complete repairability & upgradability, a max of 64GB RAM & 3 storage disks, all in a smallish (but thick) Thinkpad form-factor. Oh, and they come with two power supply options (USB-C and barrel jack) and have functional VGA ports and ethernet jacks. Batteries are a bit of a problem though.
- iSnow 5y ago
  The real problem with the Framework laptop is that the ordinary consumer will not assemble their own laptop or upgrade it later. They will just go and buy a $500 cheap laptop with a 15" screen and if it breaks, buy a new generation.
ricardobeat 5y ago
It doesn't look like a no-brainer to me (already a Mac user). The MBP has a better screen, better battery life, performance, has a metal body, is completely silent and has nicer software. That said, you should get the Air instead which is $999 with almost exactly the same specs, minus the annoying touch bar, and a tad lighter at 1.29kg.
- NotPractical 5y ago
  For the record, I also own a Mac: the MacBook Pro, 2019 baseline model. I used to enjoy the battery life (though it has been slowly getting worse to the point where I have considered reaching out to Apple about it since the battery is glued in and I can't replace it myself). I like the metal body. I also like macOS. My MacBook is not completely silent because it's an Intel mac, but the M1 would be, that's true. As far as "better screen", I'm not so sure... on paper, the resolution is nearly the same. I also like the trackpad. But anyway, you need to decide whether these things are worth the complete lack of repairability. As a reminder, your Mac's battery will die at some point, and your Mac will become useless. I'm seriously considering selling my MBP and buying this instead.
  - gorjusborg 5y ago
    Word, I'm pretty fed up with throw-away culture, especially with big ticket items. I've used pretty much all the developer laptop contenders as daily drivers at some point. You get used to what you get used to, so marginally better isn't so important, I've found. I'm going to pick one of the framework laptops because they look decent, but my secondary objective is to support a company that at least is walking some of the walk I want to see.
    - aix1 5y ago
      > I'm pretty fed up with throw-away culture, especially with big ticket items. I love what Framework are doing, but integrated hardware does not immediately equal throwaway culture (saying as something who still uses their late 2013 MacBook Pro).
dixie_land 5y ago
The almost square aspect ratio really bugs me. Would have tried it out if not for that
- gsich 5y ago
  It's still not as "square" as 4:3. Besides, why not. Other devices have huge black bars around the display.
- superjan 5y ago
  For me, that is a selling point! Widescreen is nice for movies, but when coding or browsing more lines is way more useful.
  - smsm42 5y ago
    Hear, hear! When coding (or reading) vertical space is much more important than horizontal space. Reading 300 characters wide is impossible, consequently also code also has to have shorter lines. So if your screen is ultra-wide, you either split it into areas (for which laptop screen is not big enough) or just waste a part of it. Vertical space, OTOH, is almost always used 100%. That's why I have all my widescreen displays in portrait mode too - still enough horizontal space and amazing abundance of vertical space!
    - schmorptron 5y ago
      On the other hand, on a 16:9 or 16:10 screen you can have two windows side by side and still get enough horizontal space to read enough of a line.
      - gsich 5y ago
        Still possible with 3:2. You dont lose the horizontal space.
      - smsm42 5y ago
        On a standalone wide display I did that, but on a laptop it never really worked for me, it's usually not wide enough.
herpderperator 5y ago
The single-thread performance of the M1 doesn't get close to the competition at its power level, even a year after its release. [0] The top item in the list is the M1, a 10W CPU. The second is an Intel requiring 125W. The highest-scoring i5 also requires 125W, and is 15th in the list. Just a reminder that the M1 MacBook Air has no fan, and is still at the top. When choosing a laptop you of course look are more factors than just performance, but for many, that alone will be an extremely important consideration. Not to mention that - incredibly - there isn't even a conventional battery life tradeoff for that top performance. In that sense, the M1 is a no-brainer. [0] https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html
- mjhagen 5y ago
  To me the M1 one is the differentiator not even because of its performance, but because of what it allows the laptop to be: Absolute silence with 20 hour battery life. To have it also be screamingly fast is very nice to have though.
  - Unbeliever69 5y ago
    You forget the computer is there! I have been so overwhelmingly happy with my M1 (with RAM upgrade) as a dev machine. It's THAT good. My co-workers cry when they see how fast my docker containers build.
    - simonbarker87 5y ago
      I wish I felt like this about the M1 that work got me. I have a list of issues but the best indictment of how bad it is is: - a typescript React recompile causes music playing to buffer for a couple of seconds. I wanted to love it but I much prefer my mid level Intel based MacBook Pro
      - have_faith 5y ago
        That's very odd, I compile a TypeScript react project practically all day while I'm working on it and haven't noticed anything. Could be legitimately faulty if you're seeing a load of issues.
aguacate 5y ago
You should be comparing it to the MacBook M1 Air which is $899. Battery life & smoothness/performance they achieved with M1 is phenomenal. Golden handcuffs.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
black_puppydog 5y ago
just want to note that windows 10 home is 139 of that package and I don't see how that can reasonably be included in the baseline here.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
MMS21 5y ago
The same configuration is $873 without Windows 10. Even with HDMI, MicroSD, USB-A, Type C and a power cable its under $1000!
felistoria 5y ago
It sucks that I absolutely love what Framework is doing but also absolutely love macOS :(
FearlessNebula 5y ago
MacBook Air would be a fair comparison. The pro is pretty pointless at this point next to the Air.
tailspin2019 5y ago
It would be a no-brainier if Macs were still on Intel. But post M1, I’m not so sure… The Air gives this thing a run for its money at a (albeit $21) lower price. That said, I’m 100% behind the Framework concept though - I like the direction they’re heading in. If I needed a Linux/Windows laptop it would be a serious contender for me.
- makeitdouble 5y ago
  As a hardware nerd and standard laptop user I love the M1. As a dev, I feel it's not ready yet on the software support side. It will eventually come, but if we follow the "don't buy now on the promise of future updates" principle, right now not being on AMD/Intel is a downside.
  - tailspin2019 5y ago
    So I’m currently on Intel Macs and looking to move to an M1 imminently (holding out to see what MacBook announcements come this autumn). What are the biggest issues you’ve seen so far from a dev perspective? The Framework laptop has seriously got me considering moving away from macOS to Linux as a daily dev machine and keeping my Macs for home use (and music production for which I don’t want to leave Logic Pro). But by the same token I’d love the crazy battery life, no fan noise and raw speed of an M1 for my main coding machine….
    - makeitdouble 5y ago
      For perspective, I moved to the mac because I didn’t enjoy compiling from source or debug install logs. I use homebrew, and a number of stuff is still on x86 only, needing to run in a Rosetta terminal. My ruby install is one of these. For php, php-brew couldn’t build the version I need till the end, so I bailed out of it and moved it to docker. Same for mysql 5 (upper versions seem to be available for the M1). That was right when Hashicorp announced the Desktop pricing change, and I didn’t know what my org would do so I started checking the other options. Except docker-machine/engine is supported independently only on Intel, M1 chips need docker desktop to run containers (at least that’s my take, I’d love to be wrong). Basically right now my local dev relies on Rosetta and docker, and I seriously think about buying an intel NUC as a side machine where I’d remote into.
MonaroVXR 5y ago
XPS isn't that great at all, but I need to check the newer model. I'm talking about build quality and performance.
- system2 5y ago
  Do you have an XPS?
  - colordrops 5y ago
    I have an XPS 9560 and yeah the build quality ain't great. Had to replace the motherboard and battery after two years, and while the lid is aluminum, the bottom is not, so if you have it hanging over the edge of a desktop or a non flat surface, it flexes enough that the touchpad button no longer registers. These issues might be resolved in newer models but I probably wouldn't go with a Dell again, unless it turns out that they are the best of the worst after a comparison.
    - system2 5y ago
      Did you have a fix for that mousepad issue? I have an XPS and right click area is flat now... No more click, same as yours.
      - kirubakaran 5y ago
        It's possible that your battery is swelling. I replaced mine and the trackpad started working again.
      - colordrops 5y ago
        There are two separate issues with the same effect: 1. The touchpad button doesn't work when the body is flexed. 2. As another person replied, the touchpad button is unusable when the battery is swollen.
ekianjo 5y ago
You forgot the used market. The used market for framework laptops is nil.
- lostmsu 5y ago
  Wouldn't you just replace motherboard + CPU to upgrade? No need to sell it.
  - crubier 5y ago
    You’d need to sell the motherboard + CPU then. And eventually new motherboards will come up that are not compatible with your case or accessories.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      A motherboard + CPU is just straight up a computer.
    - Stephen304 5y ago
      My first thought is that will be great for repair shops sourcing donor boards.
alerighi 5y ago
I disagree. If you configure it, it will cost you a ton of money. The base configuration doesn't have even basic ports. At contrary, today at work we bought for 900 euros (700 without taxes), plus less than 100 euros for an extra 16Gb RAM module, a thinkpad T14, that has all the features of the base model, but with 512Gb SSD, Ethernet directly on the laptop, a better keyboard, a trackpoint, more USB ports, a fingerprint reader, and a Windows 10 Pro license. To me it doesn't make a lot of sense this laptop. Regarding repairability, it's just like any other Thinkpad, the modular IO, what is its purpose? Also you are adding components that can break, consume power, and waste space. And still you don't provide an ethernet integrated on the laptopt itself, so you have to always carry around a USB adapter that doesn't work as reliably as an integrated one.
- NotPractical 5y ago
  > The base configuration doesn't have even basic ports. The preconfigured model comes with your choice of 4 ports, the options being USB-C, HDMI, microSD, USB-A, and DisplayPort. The default config is 4x USB-C, but you get to choose. > a fingerprint reader Framework has that too. Anyway, as far as I understand, if you configure it yourself, it will actually cost less money. This is the cost of the preassembled version, but for example, you could buy the "DIY edition" with everything that the preassembled model has, just without Windows, for $909 (~775 euros). The price drops even further if you remove the SSD, RAM, or Wi-Fi module and buy your own. I understand that everyone has their own priorities when it comes to a laptop. I'm only comparing laptops within the "thin and light" category here. At 1.5kg, 13" x 9" x 0.7", the ThinkPad T14 probably falls into this category, but it is slightly heavier and bulkier than the options I listed. One of my top priorities is thin/light, but I understand those more concerned about performance or # of ports and Ethernet connectivity. Additionally, I like this company's dedication towards right to repair, and buying the laptop supports them. It's a huge bonus that the laptop has competitive specs, though.
twobitshifter 5y ago
I almost feel like I have to buy this since it really is the type of laptop I’ve always wanted - but the allure of the M1 is still there, making me second guess myself.
- crubier 5y ago
  At least for me, The Framework is the laptop I wanted... in 2009 when I was still on PC. After that, I bought a MacBook Pro and never thought about hardware ever again, except when I bought my second MacBook 7 years later. Apple s durability and quality go a long way. And it’s « standardization » means it’s actually quite easy to replace batteries for example.
tathisit 5y ago
Let's be honest here, windows is going to be slow as a moonwalking Michael Jackson with that processor. Windows is, I kid you not, an order of magnitude slower than linux/macos.
- mtrower 5y ago
  What? Windows 10 isn’t particularly slow on my i7-4770K. You’re telling me that the i5-1135G7 (which benchmarks faster) is going to perform worse than my 8 year old CPU in general OS use?
  - tathisit 5y ago
    You don't know what you're missing out on. I have a ryzen 3600+nvme and it takes less time to boot into Linux, unzip a large file, and boot back into windows than it takes to unzip the file on windows, even if anti-virus is disabled. Unzipping is a single threaded task, so it's going to run at the same speed even on a 5950x.
    - mtrower 5y ago
      On the hardware side, sure, it would be great to have cutting-edge tech. Money is a factor. Realistically, my hardware is good enough for my present needs. On the software side, I am absolutely aware of what is available. File operations do seem pretty slow on Windows. What I've noticed is that latency for individual access seems really bad. Does that latency actually scale with CPU speed? Edit: btw, what were you using to unzip the file on Windows? How about Linux (unzip?) What Linux kernel/distro, what sort of zip file (large files vs small, encrypted?)
  - Joeri 5y ago
    If you’re only used to windows you might not notice how inefficient it is, and you may also be doing the “right” kind of workload for windows. On an i7 6700hq thinkpad I did the experiment and ran both windows and linux for an extended period. In my experience linux was about 30% faster for typical web development tasks (npm install, angular build, …), but performed around the same for web browsing, and was much slower in video calls.
smhg 5y ago
I'd add the Huawei Matebook 13 to that list. It has comparable specs to the Dell XPS and at least in Europe you get that for about $800 (€750). It runs Linux wonderfully well. Don't know if they still make new (2021?) versions of it though.
moksly 5y ago
> Unfortunately, not many people see repairability as a feature yet due to the toxic status quo I’m struggling to see the feature in OPs article considering that they have gone through more laptops since I bought my MacBook Pro 2016 than I’ve owned laptops in my life. Why was it necessary to replace a thinkpad every year, and what makes you think that the author isn’t just going to replace this one? I have a feeling I’m going to have my MacBook Pro 2016 for longer than the author has this one. I do support repairability, and I really don’t see why we let companies get away with ducking it over, but at the same time, there are now 3 different versions of the fairphone, sort of defeating the point of it. I’m sure frame.work is better than the fairphone, but I think you get the point I’m trying to make. Unless you get faulty hardware, you’re probably better off taking good care of it. I mean, I still have an old 14” iBook PowerPC that works perfectly well with Linux. Its hardware is obviously not up to my current needs, but I don’t see why my current MacBook Pro 2016 won’t live with me for another 5 years at least. And by then I hope legislation has forced Apple into making things more repairable. But there isn’t actually a very good reason to replace your hardware unless it stops working. At least not in my mind, and none of my Apple products have stopped working on their own. I’ve been luckier than some people in that regard, but I also still own a Sony tv from the early 00s that’s perfectly fine when hooked up with the MacBook so sometimes it’s also about buying the things that are tested so you don’t end up in one of the famous Apple recalls or the issues that come from them. It’s very anti-consumption not to buy the newest thing, I know, but I sort of think the swap to frame.work for the sake of buying something repairable defeats the entire purpose of wanting something repairable unless you make the swap after your old machine literally breaks
andrei_says_ 5y ago
If I could run MacOS on it I’d buy it today.
andi999 5y ago
What about Teclast f5. 11.6 inch, 1.1kg, 256 SSD, 8 GB RAM, worse screen worse processor, price 310$.
ribit 5y ago
I agree, it’s a no-brainer. Better display, much better performance, twice as longer battery life… not a bad deal.
kortex 5y ago
> unless you like macOS Anyone know of a Linux equivalent to Alfred and BetterTouchTool? I can get by with Gnome but these two tools are such a workflow gamechanger. Workflows and copy buffer with seamless integration in particular.
lostgame 5y ago
Confused as to why you are not comparing it to the Air, which is the same price and very similar specs?

thinkingemote 5y ago

Early adopters, hardcore techies may love repairability but they will buy whatever comes out next. What counts is the majority of buyers after these techies. It's similar the early buyers of a Tesla who could say "ahh it will be so eco I don't have to buy another car for 10 years" and, 3 years later they buy themselves the new model as they would have normally do with a combustion engine car. Consumers first. The key point is that repairability is important and is a marketing ploy but isn't a real fundamental issue for wealthy techies. They will just get another laptop in a year or so. It's the non techies that are important, not us! It's the majority and long tail, not the early adopters that this laptop should be for!

mjhagen 5y ago
It's techies that advice their non-techie friends and family though.
TeMPOraL 5y ago
> It's the majority and long tail, not the early adopters that this laptop should be for! Why? This is the way we end up having only mass-market, lowest-common-denominator products. Not fighting to get quality tooling for our niche is one of the important reasons we don't get any.
kelnos 5y ago
As a "wealthy techie", I have the opposite view: as much as it's not difficult to me to buy the things I need or want, I hate the amount of waste generated by replacing things before they need to be replaced. I currently have a 2018 Dell XPS13. I really want a Framework laptop, but my current laptop works well enough (I wish it had more RAM and a larger SSD, though, which is a big part of why I want a new one), and it's hard to justify that waste, even if I can sell or give my old laptop away to someone else who needs it.
- BoorishBears 5y ago
  > I currently have a 2018 Dell XPS13 So you're not a techie in the sense it's being used. Techie can mean someone who's an expert on technology, but when it comes to talking about techies as consumers, it's about people who always chase the latest and greatest. It's tautological, you're not a techie in this context if you don't consume new tech.
- nunb 5y ago
  The 51nb "Thinkpads" achieve three goals you may find useful: reuse, upgrade & repairability. In effect, you are recycling while upgrading! In addition to repurposing some of the old electronics & the entire chassis, they have massive performance, complete repairability & upgradability, a max of 64GB RAM & 3 storage disks, all in a smallish (but thick) Thinkpad form-factor. Oh, and they come with two power supply options (USB-C and barrel jack) and have functional VGA ports and ethernet jacks. Batteries are a bit of a problem though.
iSnow 5y ago
The real problem with the Framework laptop is that the ordinary consumer will not assemble their own laptop or upgrade it later. They will just go and buy a $500 cheap laptop with a 15" screen and if it breaks, buy a new generation.

ricardobeat 5y ago

It doesn't look like a no-brainer to me (already a Mac user). The MBP has a better screen, better battery life, performance, has a metal body, is completely silent and has nicer software. That said, you should get the Air instead which is $999 with almost exactly the same specs, minus the annoying touch bar, and a tad lighter at 1.29kg.

NotPractical 5y ago
For the record, I also own a Mac: the MacBook Pro, 2019 baseline model. I used to enjoy the battery life (though it has been slowly getting worse to the point where I have considered reaching out to Apple about it since the battery is glued in and I can't replace it myself). I like the metal body. I also like macOS. My MacBook is not completely silent because it's an Intel mac, but the M1 would be, that's true. As far as "better screen", I'm not so sure... on paper, the resolution is nearly the same. I also like the trackpad. But anyway, you need to decide whether these things are worth the complete lack of repairability. As a reminder, your Mac's battery will die at some point, and your Mac will become useless. I'm seriously considering selling my MBP and buying this instead.
- gorjusborg 5y ago
  Word, I'm pretty fed up with throw-away culture, especially with big ticket items. I've used pretty much all the developer laptop contenders as daily drivers at some point. You get used to what you get used to, so marginally better isn't so important, I've found. I'm going to pick one of the framework laptops because they look decent, but my secondary objective is to support a company that at least is walking some of the walk I want to see.
  - aix1 5y ago
    > I'm pretty fed up with throw-away culture, especially with big ticket items. I love what Framework are doing, but integrated hardware does not immediately equal throwaway culture (saying as something who still uses their late 2013 MacBook Pro).

dixie_land 5y ago

The almost square aspect ratio really bugs me. Would have tried it out if not for that

gsich 5y ago
It's still not as "square" as 4:3. Besides, why not. Other devices have huge black bars around the display.
superjan 5y ago
For me, that is a selling point! Widescreen is nice for movies, but when coding or browsing more lines is way more useful.
- smsm42 5y ago
  Hear, hear! When coding (or reading) vertical space is much more important than horizontal space. Reading 300 characters wide is impossible, consequently also code also has to have shorter lines. So if your screen is ultra-wide, you either split it into areas (for which laptop screen is not big enough) or just waste a part of it. Vertical space, OTOH, is almost always used 100%. That's why I have all my widescreen displays in portrait mode too - still enough horizontal space and amazing abundance of vertical space!
  - schmorptron 5y ago
    On the other hand, on a 16:9 or 16:10 screen you can have two windows side by side and still get enough horizontal space to read enough of a line.
    - gsich 5y ago
      Still possible with 3:2. You dont lose the horizontal space.
    - smsm42 5y ago
      On a standalone wide display I did that, but on a laptop it never really worked for me, it's usually not wide enough.

herpderperator 5y ago

The single-thread performance of the M1 doesn't get close to the competition at its power level, even a year after its release. [0] The top item in the list is the M1, a 10W CPU. The second is an Intel requiring 125W. The highest-scoring i5 also requires 125W, and is 15th in the list. Just a reminder that the M1 MacBook Air has no fan, and is still at the top. When choosing a laptop you of course look are more factors than just performance, but for many, that alone will be an extremely important consideration. Not to mention that - incredibly - there isn't even a conventional battery life tradeoff for that top performance. In that sense, the M1 is a no-brainer. [0] https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

mjhagen 5y ago
To me the M1 one is the differentiator not even because of its performance, but because of what it allows the laptop to be: Absolute silence with 20 hour battery life. To have it also be screamingly fast is very nice to have though.
- Unbeliever69 5y ago
  You forget the computer is there! I have been so overwhelmingly happy with my M1 (with RAM upgrade) as a dev machine. It's THAT good. My co-workers cry when they see how fast my docker containers build.
  - simonbarker87 5y ago
    I wish I felt like this about the M1 that work got me. I have a list of issues but the best indictment of how bad it is is: - a typescript React recompile causes music playing to buffer for a couple of seconds. I wanted to love it but I much prefer my mid level Intel based MacBook Pro
    - have_faith 5y ago
      That's very odd, I compile a TypeScript react project practically all day while I'm working on it and haven't noticed anything. Could be legitimately faulty if you're seeing a load of issues.

aguacate 5y ago

You should be comparing it to the MacBook M1 Air which is $899. Battery life & smoothness/performance they achieved with M1 is phenomenal. Golden handcuffs.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

black_puppydog 5y ago

just want to note that windows 10 home is 139 of that package and I don't see how that can reasonably be included in the baseline here.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

MMS21 5y ago

The same configuration is $873 without Windows 10. Even with HDMI, MicroSD, USB-A, Type C and a power cable its under $1000!

felistoria 5y ago

It sucks that I absolutely love what Framework is doing but also absolutely love macOS :(

FearlessNebula 5y ago

MacBook Air would be a fair comparison. The pro is pretty pointless at this point next to the Air.

tailspin2019 5y ago

It would be a no-brainier if Macs were still on Intel. But post M1, I’m not so sure… The Air gives this thing a run for its money at a (albeit $21) lower price. That said, I’m 100% behind the Framework concept though - I like the direction they’re heading in. If I needed a Linux/Windows laptop it would be a serious contender for me.

makeitdouble 5y ago
As a hardware nerd and standard laptop user I love the M1. As a dev, I feel it's not ready yet on the software support side. It will eventually come, but if we follow the "don't buy now on the promise of future updates" principle, right now not being on AMD/Intel is a downside.
- tailspin2019 5y ago
  So I’m currently on Intel Macs and looking to move to an M1 imminently (holding out to see what MacBook announcements come this autumn). What are the biggest issues you’ve seen so far from a dev perspective? The Framework laptop has seriously got me considering moving away from macOS to Linux as a daily dev machine and keeping my Macs for home use (and music production for which I don’t want to leave Logic Pro). But by the same token I’d love the crazy battery life, no fan noise and raw speed of an M1 for my main coding machine….
  - makeitdouble 5y ago
    For perspective, I moved to the mac because I didn’t enjoy compiling from source or debug install logs. I use homebrew, and a number of stuff is still on x86 only, needing to run in a Rosetta terminal. My ruby install is one of these. For php, php-brew couldn’t build the version I need till the end, so I bailed out of it and moved it to docker. Same for mysql 5 (upper versions seem to be available for the M1). That was right when Hashicorp announced the Desktop pricing change, and I didn’t know what my org would do so I started checking the other options. Except docker-machine/engine is supported independently only on Intel, M1 chips need docker desktop to run containers (at least that’s my take, I’d love to be wrong). Basically right now my local dev relies on Rosetta and docker, and I seriously think about buying an intel NUC as a side machine where I’d remote into.

MonaroVXR 5y ago

XPS isn't that great at all, but I need to check the newer model. I'm talking about build quality and performance.

system2 5y ago
Do you have an XPS?
- colordrops 5y ago
  I have an XPS 9560 and yeah the build quality ain't great. Had to replace the motherboard and battery after two years, and while the lid is aluminum, the bottom is not, so if you have it hanging over the edge of a desktop or a non flat surface, it flexes enough that the touchpad button no longer registers. These issues might be resolved in newer models but I probably wouldn't go with a Dell again, unless it turns out that they are the best of the worst after a comparison.
  - system2 5y ago
    Did you have a fix for that mousepad issue? I have an XPS and right click area is flat now... No more click, same as yours.
    - kirubakaran 5y ago
      It's possible that your battery is swelling. I replaced mine and the trackpad started working again.
    - colordrops 5y ago
      There are two separate issues with the same effect: 1. The touchpad button doesn't work when the body is flexed. 2. As another person replied, the touchpad button is unusable when the battery is swollen.

ekianjo 5y ago

You forgot the used market. The used market for framework laptops is nil.

lostmsu 5y ago
Wouldn't you just replace motherboard + CPU to upgrade? No need to sell it.
- crubier 5y ago
  You’d need to sell the motherboard + CPU then. And eventually new motherboards will come up that are not compatible with your case or accessories.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    A motherboard + CPU is just straight up a computer.
  - Stephen304 5y ago
    My first thought is that will be great for repair shops sourcing donor boards.

alerighi 5y ago

I disagree. If you configure it, it will cost you a ton of money. The base configuration doesn't have even basic ports. At contrary, today at work we bought for 900 euros (700 without taxes), plus less than 100 euros for an extra 16Gb RAM module, a thinkpad T14, that has all the features of the base model, but with 512Gb SSD, Ethernet directly on the laptop, a better keyboard, a trackpoint, more USB ports, a fingerprint reader, and a Windows 10 Pro license. To me it doesn't make a lot of sense this laptop. Regarding repairability, it's just like any other Thinkpad, the modular IO, what is its purpose? Also you are adding components that can break, consume power, and waste space. And still you don't provide an ethernet integrated on the laptopt itself, so you have to always carry around a USB adapter that doesn't work as reliably as an integrated one.

NotPractical 5y ago
> The base configuration doesn't have even basic ports. The preconfigured model comes with your choice of 4 ports, the options being USB-C, HDMI, microSD, USB-A, and DisplayPort. The default config is 4x USB-C, but you get to choose. > a fingerprint reader Framework has that too. Anyway, as far as I understand, if you configure it yourself, it will actually cost less money. This is the cost of the preassembled version, but for example, you could buy the "DIY edition" with everything that the preassembled model has, just without Windows, for $909 (~775 euros). The price drops even further if you remove the SSD, RAM, or Wi-Fi module and buy your own. I understand that everyone has their own priorities when it comes to a laptop. I'm only comparing laptops within the "thin and light" category here. At 1.5kg, 13" x 9" x 0.7", the ThinkPad T14 probably falls into this category, but it is slightly heavier and bulkier than the options I listed. One of my top priorities is thin/light, but I understand those more concerned about performance or # of ports and Ethernet connectivity. Additionally, I like this company's dedication towards right to repair, and buying the laptop supports them. It's a huge bonus that the laptop has competitive specs, though.

twobitshifter 5y ago

I almost feel like I have to buy this since it really is the type of laptop I’ve always wanted - but the allure of the M1 is still there, making me second guess myself.

crubier 5y ago
At least for me, The Framework is the laptop I wanted... in 2009 when I was still on PC. After that, I bought a MacBook Pro and never thought about hardware ever again, except when I bought my second MacBook 7 years later. Apple s durability and quality go a long way. And it’s « standardization » means it’s actually quite easy to replace batteries for example.

tathisit 5y ago

Let's be honest here, windows is going to be slow as a moonwalking Michael Jackson with that processor. Windows is, I kid you not, an order of magnitude slower than linux/macos.

mtrower 5y ago
What? Windows 10 isn’t particularly slow on my i7-4770K. You’re telling me that the i5-1135G7 (which benchmarks faster) is going to perform worse than my 8 year old CPU in general OS use?
- tathisit 5y ago
  You don't know what you're missing out on. I have a ryzen 3600+nvme and it takes less time to boot into Linux, unzip a large file, and boot back into windows than it takes to unzip the file on windows, even if anti-virus is disabled. Unzipping is a single threaded task, so it's going to run at the same speed even on a 5950x.
  - mtrower 5y ago
    On the hardware side, sure, it would be great to have cutting-edge tech. Money is a factor. Realistically, my hardware is good enough for my present needs. On the software side, I am absolutely aware of what is available. File operations do seem pretty slow on Windows. What I've noticed is that latency for individual access seems really bad. Does that latency actually scale with CPU speed? Edit: btw, what were you using to unzip the file on Windows? How about Linux (unzip?) What Linux kernel/distro, what sort of zip file (large files vs small, encrypted?)
- Joeri 5y ago
  If you’re only used to windows you might not notice how inefficient it is, and you may also be doing the “right” kind of workload for windows. On an i7 6700hq thinkpad I did the experiment and ran both windows and linux for an extended period. In my experience linux was about 30% faster for typical web development tasks (npm install, angular build, …), but performed around the same for web browsing, and was much slower in video calls.

smhg 5y ago

I'd add the Huawei Matebook 13 to that list. It has comparable specs to the Dell XPS and at least in Europe you get that for about $800 (€750). It runs Linux wonderfully well. Don't know if they still make new (2021?) versions of it though.

moksly 5y ago

> Unfortunately, not many people see repairability as a feature yet due to the toxic status quo I’m struggling to see the feature in OPs article considering that they have gone through more laptops since I bought my MacBook Pro 2016 than I’ve owned laptops in my life. Why was it necessary to replace a thinkpad every year, and what makes you think that the author isn’t just going to replace this one? I have a feeling I’m going to have my MacBook Pro 2016 for longer than the author has this one. I do support repairability, and I really don’t see why we let companies get away with ducking it over, but at the same time, there are now 3 different versions of the fairphone, sort of defeating the point of it. I’m sure frame.work is better than the fairphone, but I think you get the point I’m trying to make. Unless you get faulty hardware, you’re probably better off taking good care of it. I mean, I still have an old 14” iBook PowerPC that works perfectly well with Linux. Its hardware is obviously not up to my current needs, but I don’t see why my current MacBook Pro 2016 won’t live with me for another 5 years at least. And by then I hope legislation has forced Apple into making things more repairable. But there isn’t actually a very good reason to replace your hardware unless it stops working. At least not in my mind, and none of my Apple products have stopped working on their own. I’ve been luckier than some people in that regard, but I also still own a Sony tv from the early 00s that’s perfectly fine when hooked up with the MacBook so sometimes it’s also about buying the things that are tested so you don’t end up in one of the famous Apple recalls or the issues that come from them. It’s very anti-consumption not to buy the newest thing, I know, but I sort of think the swap to frame.work for the sake of buying something repairable defeats the entire purpose of wanting something repairable unless you make the swap after your old machine literally breaks

andrei_says_ 5y ago

If I could run MacOS on it I’d buy it today.

andi999 5y ago

What about Teclast f5. 11.6 inch, 1.1kg, 256 SSD, 8 GB RAM, worse screen worse processor, price 310$.

ribit 5y ago

I agree, it’s a no-brainer. Better display, much better performance, twice as longer battery life… not a bad deal.

kortex 5y ago

> unless you like macOS Anyone know of a Linux equivalent to Alfred and BetterTouchTool? I can get by with Gnome but these two tools are such a workflow gamechanger. Workflows and copy buffer with seamless integration in particular.

lostgame 5y ago

Confused as to why you are not comparing it to the Air, which is the same price and very similar specs?