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Goats became an unconventional weapon against wildfires
- pvaldes 5y agoSo, taking in mind that goats (and deer) are everywhere, why we still have wildfires? They do really think that ants and other insects process less flammable material than goats do?
- jasonboyd 5y agoAre goats everywhere? The handful of places I've lived (Central Florida and SF bay area) I've never seen a "wild" goat. Deer, sure. But deer seem to be much pickier than goats when it comes to their diets
- soperj 5y agoI've had deer eat potato and tomato plants, and marigolds. They don't see particularly picky. They don't eat lavender...
- jasonboyd 5y agoI've seen goats eat trash so...
- soperj 5y agolol. okay. I stand corrected.
- toast0 5y agoGoats and Deer are picky eaters, if they've got a buffet they eat what they like and avoid what they don't like. Goats eating trash is usually a mix of curiosity/exploring with their mouth, the glues are often tasty, and some people are jerks and don't feed their goats/hungry goats will find calories.
- bobthepanda 5y agoGoats are used in Seattle to clear away invasive blackberry, which are quite annoying to get rid of. https://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Rent-a-goats-gain-foothold-1240623.php https://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Rent-a-goats-gain-fo...
- toast0 5y agoYeah, that works cause goats like blackberry (the whole plant). I didn't think they liked scotch broom (mine won't eat it), but the rent a goat services carefully size the fencing so the goats don't have so much available that they can be really picky.
- soperj 5y agoDeer aren't everywhere. I live in a city where I see deer literally every single day. Multiple times a day. I've never seen one in the forest here. Not once. Cougars come into town regularly because that's where the food is.
- pvaldes 5y agoMaybe they visit the forest at night?...
- r00fus 5y agoDeer are not everywhere. They would probably need to exist in higher ratios, even where they do frequent.
- WalterBright 5y agoDeer in the Seattle area only eat landscaping and garden plants. They leave the native plants and the invasive weeds alone. Fortunately, my yard is mostly invasive weeds, so I don't have problems with the deer.
- SlipperySlope 5y agoIn the Colorado mountains, deer eat wildflowers and baby aspens but leave grass, juniper, and pines alone.
- bobthepanda 5y agoThe goats get used in Seattle for blackberry. https://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Rent-a-goats-gain-foothold-1240623.php https://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Rent-a-goats-gain-fo...
- belorn 5y ago> They arrive early and open the trailer. The goats jump out, ready to eat, as Ms. Malmberg watches that they don’t stray. The team sets up an electric fence to confine the goats and their meals to a specific area overnight. Doing the same thing with deers would be much harder. Keeping deer confined in a specific area in order to concentrate the grazing requires much better fences, and when they inadvertently escape it takes much more work to bring them back. My biggest questions with this setup is how they keep the cost down from setting up an electric fence in order to create a good fire wall. Electric fences are generally very labor intensive, and we seems to be talking about steep slopes in some cases.
- w-ll 5y agoCould it be done with just a shock collar and a geo-fence?
- mikeg8 5y agoShock collars are expensive when you need 50+ of them, plus keeping them all charged etc. the current method of portable net-type fencing is very efficient.
- jdavis703 5y agoThat seems unnecessarily cruel to draw an invisible line that’s always changing and shock them for violating the line. The reason this is ok for dogs is because they’re in a fixed location and can learn the boundaries. The goats on the other hand are always being moved to new areas.
- Swizec 5y ago> My biggest questions with this setup is how they keep the cost down from setting up an electric fence in order to create a good fire wall They don’t. Friend of mine owns some land north of SF and was quoted $5000 to have goats come eat the grass. I suspect his land is too small to be worth the hassle for the goat service provider so he was quoted the go away price.
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- hindsightbias 5y agoIDK of any wild goats in the Bay Area. Know of one goat ranch in Napa county. IMO goats should be released in masses to the foothills everywhere. 98% of what has/is burning isn’t urban or agricultural. Vineyards can spend more on fencing or fire insurance…
- jounker 5y ago> IMO goats should be released in masses to the foothills everywhere. I’ve seen what happens when you let goats run free to in the hills. The technical term is called desertification.
- sulam 5y agoIf you've seen one of these setups (the SF Bay Area has been doing this a while, so I see it a fair amount), you know that it takes a lot of goats to clear a hillside. Like in the 50 range. There are not enough deer to get the job done.
- hindsightbias 5y agoI was told by someone that it takes about 200 goats/acre/day So guessing that’s why her herd is that size.
- Factorium 5y agoThe goats are 'free' but require expensive fencing and supervision. Otherwise they'll just wander off and eat the tastier food crops or household plants. Goat meat and milk processing is not as automated as it is for cattle, chicken, pigs. Free-range goats with a GPS-based pain collar could be a solution.
- woodgrainz 5y agohttps://archive.ph/OAibx https://archive.ph/OAibx
- coding123 5y agoI'm in an Arctic Fox camper right now.
- uoaei 5y agoSince when is clearing flammable grasses and underbrush to prevent wildfires "unconventional"?
- gricardo99 5y agoFrom the article: is among a few individuals using grazing methods for fire mitigation
- yukinon 5y agoI am not sure if you are being obtuse or not, but the "unconventional" part is referring to the practice of using goats.
- dang 5y ago"Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- tonymet 5y agoThis has been common in the SF Bay Area for 15 years now. They are adorable and fun to spend time around– it feels like living in the old country.
- Aaronstotle 5y agoYeah, I enjoy seeing the herd move to different spots in the East Bay, I usually stop on a ride (cycling) to observe. Always a good time
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- sologoub 5y agoIt’s pretty common all around CA. Not really sure what’s so groundbreaking.
- wintermutestwin 5y agoMore like 25 years. I remember hiking in Briones in the 90s and they regularly had a herd of brush clearing goats penned in with electric fence.
- LurkingPenguin 5y agoGoats also make great yoga partners. https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/12/health/goat-yoga-oregon-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/12/health/goat-yoga-oregon-trnd/...
- luhn 5y agoUnrelated to the article, but NYT is forcing me to login before reading the article. I guess the days of opening a private window to circumvent the three articles per month limit are over.
- mountainriver 5y agoUber for goats? Anyone want to get in on this?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- rafaele 5y agoCan we call it Chewber? (because they eat grass). AirBleatNCleat? HerdWallet? Instagoat? GoatHub? how about Eweber? (okay, that's kind of a stretch)
- jrootabega 5y agoUber Bleats
- ww520 5y agoUber Baaa.
- robbedpeter 5y agoEweber.
- ww520 5y agoHa. Ubaaaa.
- Tagbert 5y agoCaper
- maxerickson 5y agoWhat value is the middle man going to add when the person with the trailer and goats has all the business they want?
- imglorp 5y agohttps://www.rentagoat.com https://www.rentagoat.com Not kidding.
- 1970-01-01 5y agoCan sheep and rams also be unconventional weapons?
- mikeg8 5y agoSheep prefer grasses, goats will eats all kinds of shubs/brush and do a much better job of removing thick fire fuels to a higher heigh as they will also climb. Sheep tend to eat at ground level.
- leoc 5y agoAs the saying goes, sometimes you have to fight fire with goats.
- adolph 5y agoIt’s all fine and dandy until something becomes an invasive species.
- kwere 5y agoGoats are manageable as invasive species, i Hope
- yabatopia 5y agoWeapons of grass destruction.
- vondur 5y agoWe used to see them on the trails in Aliso Canyon down in laguna beach.
- fkfowl3 5y agoI have seen them at Hayward shoreline (Bay area). They are efficient at clearing long patches of grass without much supervision. They were bounded each day by a re-installable fence. New location on each day covering approx. 50-60 sq yds. The fence even-though was weak seemed to deter the goats from wandering away. The only drawback i could see is they eat away everything they like which could mean eating rare or endangered flora.
- ilamont 5y agoI'm skeptical. Will the goats really remove the fire risk for 100 acres after a day of grazing? Can it scale? The pictures show goats eating grass, not forested underbrush including small trees, bushes, and dead branches which provide fuel for these fires.
- oconnore 5y agoIt cannot scale, but it is a useful tool for specific locations and problems. What does scale is using fire to fight fire -- prescribed burns, and allowing natural fires to burn while monitoring them for safety. In parallel, lots can be done to harden home in the Wilderness-Urban-Interface. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-09-18/how-prescribed-burns-could-save-worlds-largest-trees https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-09-18/how-pres...
- Johnythree 5y agoThe problem with prescribed burns is that in winter and spring it is often too wet to burn, then when the hot winds come it is too risky to burn. People don't realise just how quickly the wet landscape can dry out when the hot winds come. I learnt this the hard way on my property.
- aaron695 5y agoIt's a fun thing to do. Like a working bee, it gets community involvement. Or instead of getting a Jumping Castle for something to do you might get goats to help out. Poison would be cheaper and more effective. But so is eating Soylent, sometimes solving problems can be fun. Correct it's not a solution. FYI Goats don't really eat grass. They are Browsers not Grazers.
- swader999 5y agoWe tried goats at our ski hill and to be honest they don't come close to people power.
- jp0d 5y agoI've seen something like this used in Vic, Australia. Apparently goats love Blackberries. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9yiclBCxMo&t=577s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9yiclBCxMo&t=577s
- Johnythree 5y agoThey love blackberries, but they don't kill them and they spread the seeds all over, nicely fertilised. Then when you get rid of the goats you have a total blackberry infestation.
- jp0d 5y agoAccording to this video, they've had some success! I'd be interested in eating those blackberry flavoured goats. hahaha.
- Johnythree 5y agoAnother problem with goats is that they soon learn to strip the bark and kill all your trees. I found out the hard way.
- jp0d 5y agoGoats are amazing animals! :D
- apatheticonion 5y agoThis guy will be all over this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1WoOqYOBcE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1WoOqYOBcE
- thdespou 5y agoThis is a reason why there is a game about goats: https://www.goat-simulator.com/ https://www.goat-simulator.com/