5 ms·

I'm impressed that they have managed to take this product to market, and I'm glad that people who value modularity will finally have a viable option. at the sa

I'm impressed that they have managed to take this product to market, and I'm glad that people who value modularity will finally have a viable option. at the same time, I personally don't see what all the fuss is about. you can upgrade both DIMMs, which is cool, but not exactly unheard of these days (I guess it's getting there in an ultraportable?). you're still stuck with DDR4, which is almost EOL, and the max capacity it entails. it's neat that you can customize your IO options, but how many people are going to do that more than once? being constrained by the chipset, it's not like you're going to be able to "upgrade" your IO in the future. the most likely parts of a laptop to fail are the SSD and the battery, both of which are fairly easy to replace on almost all laptops. past that, you aren't really gaining that much when you're locked into whatever CPU/chipset was current when you bought the laptop.

FredFS456 5y ago
Newer laptops are starting to come with soldered SSDs. Macbooks have had non-standard or soldered SSDs for the past 5+ years. Framework is also proactively making documentation, schematics, etc etc available for repair shops.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >Newer laptops are starting to come with soldered SSDs Which newer laptops? Other than Macs and crappy $199 Walmart grade tablet-chromebook thingamajigs, I don't know any mainstream PC laptop that does that (thankfully). Even super light and super slim laptops still have replaceable storage. Even niche Pocket Computers like the GPD and Valve Steam Deck still have replaceable SSDs. So I don't buy your statement.
  - ixwt 5y ago
    If Macs are doing it, others are soon to follow. Apple has been a trend setter for years. They were belittled for getting rid of the 3.5mm jack, only for flag ship phones to begin doing so.
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      Soon when? Apple has been doing it for 5 years now and the rest of the industry hasn't even started. The truth is, unlike with RAM, it's still cheaper for the other laptop manufacturers to have a single motherboard SKU which they can later plug whatever cheap COTS SSDs they can get from various sources rather than waste effort tayloring a motherboard for a specific SSD controller, specific DRAM cache chips and specific Flash chips, as that gives them way less flexibility in component sourcing during production lifecycle and more expense in board design resulting in more expensive products with no extra margins for them. Apple can do this economically as they have a very tightly controlled supply chain with high volumes and due to the little variation in SKUs so they can just use the same SSD controller on all their products and just change the amount of Flash chips soldered on the board and call it a day.
- NotPractical 5y ago
  MacBooks also have glued in batteries.
OJFord 5y ago
> you're locked [sic] into whatever CPU/chipset was current when you bought the laptop. Which you can replace/upgrade too.
- leetcrew 5y ago
  we'll have to wait and see whether this actually happens, but if so, that would certainly invalidate my biggest criticism. if they could pull it off on a 14"-15.6" chassis with a discrete gpu, they would probably get my money. also, pretty sure that is correct english, why the [sic]?
  - OJFord 5y ago
    I can't find where to buy one, but they already have a guide for replacing the 'mainboard' (CPU soldered on) - https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Mainboard+Replacement+Guide/79 https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Mainboard+Replacement+Guide/.... > also, pretty sure that is correct english, why the [sic]? Perfectly correct English yes - I just meant that I was disagreeing with that, you're not locked to it. (I don't think it's an incorrect use of it, but thinking about it it's not a common one - can just quote and say 'that's not right' after all - so I don't know I bothered, sorry.)
    - leetcrew 5y ago
      > Perfectly correct English yes - I just meant that I was disagreeing with that, you're not locked to it. fair enough :) and I saw that guide too. my skepticism is regarding what happens when the next generation (or an AMD variant) arrives. will the new mainboards be drop-in replacements for the old? if nothing else, this would make it difficult to radically change the cooling solution, which could be a big problem for the dGPU machine I'd like to see. maybe my initial comment was too harsh. they have delivered a fully user-repairable machine, which is a great thing. but what I want is a fully upgradable machine, in the sense of a DIY desktop build. they have made some vague promises around the latter, but I'll reserve my judgement until I see it actually happen.
jbm 5y ago
> SSD and the battery I have a MacBook Pro w/ Retina Display from Mid-2012. It cannot be fixed for a reasonable price, despite it being still mostly perfect for my daughter's school computing. This computer definitely interests me (as someone who moved back to Ubuntu / Regolith this year)
mickotron 5y ago
No, you can upgrade the entire main board (with CPU) in future. And the "old" main board can function as a standalone PC outside the chassis.
sfteus 5y ago
IMO, the selling point isn't that you can carry around the ports you might potentially use and swap them out whenever you need them, it's that you can buy a machine that's tailored to your setup and peripherals. I bought a laptop at the beginning of 2020 after the GPU on my old one fried. What I wanted was something with a Cat6 and DisplayPort built in for when I'm in my office, and multiple USB-A ports for the peripherals I use (mouse/keyboard/mic/speakers). I had to settle for one with a single extra USB-C port, an additional USB-C hub to get enough USB-A ports and a Cat6, and an adaptor for the built-in HDMI port to hook up to the DisplayPort on my monitor, which set me back a total of like $100 on top of the cost of the laptop itself. The laptop also has a headset jack and large card reader that I have yet to use, so that's just wasted space that could have potentially been something I would have actually used.

FredFS456 5y ago

Newer laptops are starting to come with soldered SSDs. Macbooks have had non-standard or soldered SSDs for the past 5+ years. Framework is also proactively making documentation, schematics, etc etc available for repair shops.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>Newer laptops are starting to come with soldered SSDs Which newer laptops? Other than Macs and crappy $199 Walmart grade tablet-chromebook thingamajigs, I don't know any mainstream PC laptop that does that (thankfully). Even super light and super slim laptops still have replaceable storage. Even niche Pocket Computers like the GPD and Valve Steam Deck still have replaceable SSDs. So I don't buy your statement.
- ixwt 5y ago
  If Macs are doing it, others are soon to follow. Apple has been a trend setter for years. They were belittled for getting rid of the 3.5mm jack, only for flag ship phones to begin doing so.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    Soon when? Apple has been doing it for 5 years now and the rest of the industry hasn't even started. The truth is, unlike with RAM, it's still cheaper for the other laptop manufacturers to have a single motherboard SKU which they can later plug whatever cheap COTS SSDs they can get from various sources rather than waste effort tayloring a motherboard for a specific SSD controller, specific DRAM cache chips and specific Flash chips, as that gives them way less flexibility in component sourcing during production lifecycle and more expense in board design resulting in more expensive products with no extra margins for them. Apple can do this economically as they have a very tightly controlled supply chain with high volumes and due to the little variation in SKUs so they can just use the same SSD controller on all their products and just change the amount of Flash chips soldered on the board and call it a day.
NotPractical 5y ago
MacBooks also have glued in batteries.

OJFord 5y ago

> you're locked [sic] into whatever CPU/chipset was current when you bought the laptop. Which you can replace/upgrade too.

leetcrew 5y ago
we'll have to wait and see whether this actually happens, but if so, that would certainly invalidate my biggest criticism. if they could pull it off on a 14"-15.6" chassis with a discrete gpu, they would probably get my money. also, pretty sure that is correct english, why the [sic]?
- OJFord 5y ago
  I can't find where to buy one, but they already have a guide for replacing the 'mainboard' (CPU soldered on) - https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Mainboard+Replacement+Guide/79 https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Mainboard+Replacement+Guide/.... > also, pretty sure that is correct english, why the [sic]? Perfectly correct English yes - I just meant that I was disagreeing with that, you're not locked to it. (I don't think it's an incorrect use of it, but thinking about it it's not a common one - can just quote and say 'that's not right' after all - so I don't know I bothered, sorry.)
  - leetcrew 5y ago
    > Perfectly correct English yes - I just meant that I was disagreeing with that, you're not locked to it. fair enough :) and I saw that guide too. my skepticism is regarding what happens when the next generation (or an AMD variant) arrives. will the new mainboards be drop-in replacements for the old? if nothing else, this would make it difficult to radically change the cooling solution, which could be a big problem for the dGPU machine I'd like to see. maybe my initial comment was too harsh. they have delivered a fully user-repairable machine, which is a great thing. but what I want is a fully upgradable machine, in the sense of a DIY desktop build. they have made some vague promises around the latter, but I'll reserve my judgement until I see it actually happen.

jbm 5y ago

> SSD and the battery I have a MacBook Pro w/ Retina Display from Mid-2012. It cannot be fixed for a reasonable price, despite it being still mostly perfect for my daughter's school computing. This computer definitely interests me (as someone who moved back to Ubuntu / Regolith this year)

mickotron 5y ago

No, you can upgrade the entire main board (with CPU) in future. And the "old" main board can function as a standalone PC outside the chassis.

sfteus 5y ago

IMO, the selling point isn't that you can carry around the ports you might potentially use and swap them out whenever you need them, it's that you can buy a machine that's tailored to your setup and peripherals. I bought a laptop at the beginning of 2020 after the GPU on my old one fried. What I wanted was something with a Cat6 and DisplayPort built in for when I'm in my office, and multiple USB-A ports for the peripherals I use (mouse/keyboard/mic/speakers). I had to settle for one with a single extra USB-C port, an additional USB-C hub to get enough USB-A ports and a Cat6, and an adaptor for the built-in HDMI port to hook up to the DisplayPort on my monitor, which set me back a total of like $100 on top of the cost of the laptop itself. The laptop also has a headset jack and large card reader that I have yet to use, so that's just wasted space that could have potentially been something I would have actually used.