5 ms·

The Framework has half the battery life of similarly sized alternatives. No one was lying to you.

rozap 5y ago
As battery tech gets better, you can replace it. And the glued-in battery in the macbook pro won't be 100% capacity after a bunch of charge/discharges. It's a compromise in the short term maybe, but long term it's so much nicer.
- NullPrefix 5y ago
  >battery in the macbook pro won't be 100% capacity after a bunch of charge/discharges You're supposed to replace the macbook by then.
  - paxys 5y ago
    That's the entire point of framework. Why should I have to replace my macbook when most of it runs perfect except for one part?
    - xvector 5y ago
      But you don't have to replace the MacBook, you can just replace the battery.
      - paxys 5y ago
        On newer Macbooks the battery is literally glued in. An Apple authorized repair center is going to charge you $200+ for a replacement.
        xvector 5y ago
        Wow, didn't know this!
        NullPrefix 5y ago
        My initial cynical point still stands. The thing is a status symbol, a display of wealth for lower to mid class, just buy a new one.
        xvector 5y ago
        It's not just a status symbol, it's also a fantastic laptop. I honestly don't find it reasonable to recommend normal people anything other than an M1 Mac at this point.
- adolph 5y ago
  I've replaced a glued in MacBook Pro battery. It isn't a big deal and very similar to the Framework, except the Framework has mechanical connections (screws and tabs). The battery replacement kit came with everything needed. It didn't come with newly additional capacity because the underlying changes in battery chemistry aren't there. The improvements in battery life mostly come from CPUs with lower TDP. https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Battery+Replacement+Guide/85?lang=en https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Battery+Replacement+Guide/85... https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Pro+13-Inch+Retina+Display+Late+2013+Battery+Replacement/27316 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Pro+13-Inch+Retina+Disp...
lucb1e 5y ago
From comparative tests or from vendor specs? (Genuine question, I do not know which you are referring to)
- xvector 5y ago
  https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/frameworks-new-lightweight-modular-laptop-delivers-on-its-promises/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/frameworks-new-light... Scroll down to the battery section
  - jalada 5y ago
    For anyone who tl;dr: > Only 61 percent the battery life of a similarly configured XPS 13
  - donmcronald 5y ago
    > We suspect the Framework's high-brightness, high-resolution display is the culprit for its relatively poor battery life—the XPS 13 at the top of the chart is a 1080p non-touch model, as is the Acer Swift below it. And the XPS has an i7-1065G7 [1] vs the Framework with an i7-1185G7 [2]. So the Framework has a better screen and a better CPU. I'm not sure I agree with running that benchmark without other data alongside it like a score or the average clock rate. For example, I put a 2nd battery in a ThinkPad once and it had the effect of locking the CPU clock to <1GHz. The battery was predicted to last much longer than normal, but it was useless as a computer. 1. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196597/intel-core-i71065g7-processor-8m-cache-up-to-3-90-ghz.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196597/... 2. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/208664/intel-core-i71185g7-processor-12m-cache-up-to-4-80-ghz-with-ipu.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/208664/...
FredFS456 5y ago
Could you provide some sources to back up that claim? My first choice for laptop reviews (https://www.notebookcheck.net/Framework-Laptop-13-5-Review-If-Microsoft-Made-A-Repairable-Surface-Laptop-This-Would-Be-It.551850.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Framework-Laptop-13-5-Review-I...) did not show that to be the case
- xvector 5y ago
  https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/frameworks-new-lightweight-modular-laptop-delivers-on-its-promises/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/frameworks-new-light... Battery test section
  - CameronNemo 5y ago
    We suspect the Framework's high-brightness, high-resolution display is the culprit for its relatively poor battery life—the XPS 13 at the top of the chart is a 1080p non-touch model, as is the Acer Swift below it. Directly comparing 3:2 resolutions with 16:9 or 16:10 resolutions is an exercise in frustration—but the Framework's display offers noticeably higher pixel density than its competitors here, and that does not come for free.
CivBase 5y ago
Can I get a citation for that? The only laptop for which that seems to be true is the MacBook, but no x86 laptop will come close to that. From what I've seen the Framework has a mostly uninteresting battery life, outperforming some likely competitors (like Dell's XPS 13 and MS's Surface Laptop) and outperformed by others (like HP's ProBook x360 and ASUS's Zenbook 13).
- jhickok 5y ago
  Here it states that it has a worse performing battery than the XPS: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/frameworks-new-lightweight-modular-laptop-delivers-on-its-promises/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/frameworks-new-light... Under the final section: >>The ugly Only 61 percent the battery life of a similarly configured XPS 13
  - CivBase 5y ago
    Interesting. Tom's Guide says pretty much the exact opposite, with the XPS coming in at roughly 78% the battery life of the Framework. > In our battery test, which sets the laptop’s screen brightness to 150 nits and tasks it with endlessly browsing the web via Wi-Fi, the Framework lasted 10 hours and 17 minutes. That’s better than the Dell XPS 13 (7:59) https://www.tomsguide.com/reviews/framework-laptop-review-the-anti-macbook-has-arrived#framework-laptop-review-battery-life-xa0 https://www.tomsguide.com/reviews/framework-laptop-review-th... Maybe the XPS 13 configuration was different? Or maybe the tests were different in nature? Ars used PCMark 10, which is a standard benchmark that Dell could have specifically optimized for. The Ars review does have this to say later on: > The Framework also manages surprisingly high battery life under Ubuntu—in our semi-scientific video playback test, Framework runs neck and neck with the outstanding Acer Swift 3 at just over five hours, with everything else (including the XPS 13, which in this case is hampered by a 4k touchscreen display) trailing well behind.
leetcrew 5y ago
55 Wh is a pretty good size for the form factor. looks like it's suffering from a comparison against competitors with lower resolution screens.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
6gvONxR4sf7o 5y ago
As far as I can tell, this laptop has a 55 Wh battery. A macbook pro of the same size (13in) has a 58 Wh battery and the dell XPS 13 has a 52 Wh battery. What am I missing?
- hinkley 5y ago
  Capacity isn’t the only metric for batteries. The faster you draw down the more power converts to heat. Different battery chemistry changes that a bit, but also aggressive power management to flatten (and lower) the curve matters a great deal. Apple nailed that during the same generation they introduced the unreplaceable battery. Better density, less packaging, and improved power management virtually doubled the run time on that laptop versus the previous. That was a huge deal at the time. Has everyone else caught up?

As battery tech gets better, you can replace it. And the glued-in battery in the macbook pro won't be 100% capacity after a bunch of charge/discharges. It's a compromise in the short term maybe, but long term it's so much nicer.

NullPrefix 5y ago
>battery in the macbook pro won't be 100% capacity after a bunch of charge/discharges You're supposed to replace the macbook by then.
- paxys 5y ago
  That's the entire point of framework. Why should I have to replace my macbook when most of it runs perfect except for one part?
  - xvector 5y ago
    But you don't have to replace the MacBook, you can just replace the battery.
    - paxys 5y ago
      On newer Macbooks the battery is literally glued in. An Apple authorized repair center is going to charge you $200+ for a replacement.
      - xvector 5y ago
        Wow, didn't know this!
      - NullPrefix 5y ago
        My initial cynical point still stands. The thing is a status symbol, a display of wealth for lower to mid class, just buy a new one.
        xvector 5y ago
        It's not just a status symbol, it's also a fantastic laptop. I honestly don't find it reasonable to recommend normal people anything other than an M1 Mac at this point.
adolph 5y ago
I've replaced a glued in MacBook Pro battery. It isn't a big deal and very similar to the Framework, except the Framework has mechanical connections (screws and tabs). The battery replacement kit came with everything needed. It didn't come with newly additional capacity because the underlying changes in battery chemistry aren't there. The improvements in battery life mostly come from CPUs with lower TDP. https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Battery+Replacement+Guide/85?lang=en https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Battery+Replacement+Guide/85... https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Pro+13-Inch+Retina+Display+Late+2013+Battery+Replacement/27316 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Pro+13-Inch+Retina+Disp...

lucb1e 5y ago

From comparative tests or from vendor specs? (Genuine question, I do not know which you are referring to)

xvector 5y ago
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/frameworks-new-lightweight-modular-laptop-delivers-on-its-promises/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/frameworks-new-light... Scroll down to the battery section
- jalada 5y ago
  For anyone who tl;dr: > Only 61 percent the battery life of a similarly configured XPS 13
- donmcronald 5y ago
  > We suspect the Framework's high-brightness, high-resolution display is the culprit for its relatively poor battery life—the XPS 13 at the top of the chart is a 1080p non-touch model, as is the Acer Swift below it. And the XPS has an i7-1065G7 [1] vs the Framework with an i7-1185G7 [2]. So the Framework has a better screen and a better CPU. I'm not sure I agree with running that benchmark without other data alongside it like a score or the average clock rate. For example, I put a 2nd battery in a ThinkPad once and it had the effect of locking the CPU clock to <1GHz. The battery was predicted to last much longer than normal, but it was useless as a computer. 1. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196597/intel-core-i71065g7-processor-8m-cache-up-to-3-90-ghz.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196597/... 2. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/208664/intel-core-i71185g7-processor-12m-cache-up-to-4-80-ghz-with-ipu.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/208664/...

FredFS456 5y ago

Could you provide some sources to back up that claim? My first choice for laptop reviews (https://www.notebookcheck.net/Framework-Laptop-13-5-Review-If-Microsoft-Made-A-Repairable-Surface-Laptop-This-Would-Be-It.551850.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Framework-Laptop-13-5-Review-I...) did not show that to be the case

xvector 5y ago
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/frameworks-new-lightweight-modular-laptop-delivers-on-its-promises/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/frameworks-new-light... Battery test section
- CameronNemo 5y ago
  We suspect the Framework's high-brightness, high-resolution display is the culprit for its relatively poor battery life—the XPS 13 at the top of the chart is a 1080p non-touch model, as is the Acer Swift below it. Directly comparing 3:2 resolutions with 16:9 or 16:10 resolutions is an exercise in frustration—but the Framework's display offers noticeably higher pixel density than its competitors here, and that does not come for free.

CivBase 5y ago

Can I get a citation for that? The only laptop for which that seems to be true is the MacBook, but no x86 laptop will come close to that. From what I've seen the Framework has a mostly uninteresting battery life, outperforming some likely competitors (like Dell's XPS 13 and MS's Surface Laptop) and outperformed by others (like HP's ProBook x360 and ASUS's Zenbook 13).

jhickok 5y ago
Here it states that it has a worse performing battery than the XPS: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/frameworks-new-lightweight-modular-laptop-delivers-on-its-promises/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/frameworks-new-light... Under the final section: >>The ugly Only 61 percent the battery life of a similarly configured XPS 13
- CivBase 5y ago
  Interesting. Tom's Guide says pretty much the exact opposite, with the XPS coming in at roughly 78% the battery life of the Framework. > In our battery test, which sets the laptop’s screen brightness to 150 nits and tasks it with endlessly browsing the web via Wi-Fi, the Framework lasted 10 hours and 17 minutes. That’s better than the Dell XPS 13 (7:59) https://www.tomsguide.com/reviews/framework-laptop-review-the-anti-macbook-has-arrived#framework-laptop-review-battery-life-xa0 https://www.tomsguide.com/reviews/framework-laptop-review-th... Maybe the XPS 13 configuration was different? Or maybe the tests were different in nature? Ars used PCMark 10, which is a standard benchmark that Dell could have specifically optimized for. The Ars review does have this to say later on: > The Framework also manages surprisingly high battery life under Ubuntu—in our semi-scientific video playback test, Framework runs neck and neck with the outstanding Acer Swift 3 at just over five hours, with everything else (including the XPS 13, which in this case is hampered by a 4k touchscreen display) trailing well behind.

leetcrew 5y ago

55 Wh is a pretty good size for the form factor. looks like it's suffering from a comparison against competitors with lower resolution screens.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

6gvONxR4sf7o 5y ago

As far as I can tell, this laptop has a 55 Wh battery. A macbook pro of the same size (13in) has a 58 Wh battery and the dell XPS 13 has a 52 Wh battery. What am I missing?

hinkley 5y ago
Capacity isn’t the only metric for batteries. The faster you draw down the more power converts to heat. Different battery chemistry changes that a bit, but also aggressive power management to flatten (and lower) the curve matters a great deal. Apple nailed that during the same generation they introduced the unreplaceable battery. Better density, less packaging, and improved power management virtually doubled the run time on that laptop versus the previous. That was a huge deal at the time. Has everyone else caught up?