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> BTW in the case of speed limits: during a burst of sensible lawmaking, California set speed limits but also modulated them with the idea that people are sensi

by Twisol 5y ago

> BTW in the case of speed limits: during a burst of sensible lawmaking, California set speed limits but also modulated them with the idea that people are sensible: if the speed limit on a road is set to 25, but the dominant traffic is at 35, the presumption is that the proper limit is actually 35. As a Californian, this interests me -- can you cite a source for me to follow? I found this page [0] from Caltrans, but it speaks to determining the posted speed limit, not overriding the posted speed limit. [0] https://dot.ca.gov/programs/safety-programs/setting-speed-limits https://dot.ca.gov/programs/safety-programs/setting-speed-li... > The most widely accepted method of determining the posted speed limit is to set the speed limit at what is called the “85th percentile speed”, which is the speed at or below which 85 percent of the traffic is moving.

gumby 5y ago
The links in that page describe the process, including the part you referred to "overriding" the speed limit. I don't think they use that term, but look for what the code calls out for "speed traps". Here's a concrete example: Embarcadero road in Palo Alto feeds from highway 101. It has a posted speed limit of 25, and there is a perennial complaint presented to the city council, letters to the editor etc: why won't the police come out and enforce the speed limit? The answer is that to do so they'd have to do a survey and then adjust the limit...up (I think traffic travels about 40-45 MPH on this road). If that is the reasonable and proper rate for that road, to enforce anything lower would be a speed trap. The city keeps the 25 signs up in the hope that they discourage even faster driving. Likewise when they use radar they not only have to post a sign but do a survey, which has to be updated every few years -- you can't use radar to enforce something unfair. I'm not sure the radar signs on Embarcadero are even current (thus probably not even legal). BTW as I learned in driving school years ago (got a ticket), apart from "reasonable and proper at all time" you can't go over 55 anywhere unless it's explicitly posted. Actually I got all this initially from driving school, and then when Jim Warren went to the effort of getting the entire CA legal code online in the 90s, I actually read a good chunk of the vehicle code in particular.

by Twisol 5y ago

gumby 5y ago

The links in that page describe the process, including the part you referred to "overriding" the speed limit. I don't think they use that term, but look for what the code calls out for "speed traps". Here's a concrete example: Embarcadero road in Palo Alto feeds from highway 101. It has a posted speed limit of 25, and there is a perennial complaint presented to the city council, letters to the editor etc: why won't the police come out and enforce the speed limit? The answer is that to do so they'd have to do a survey and then adjust the limit...up (I think traffic travels about 40-45 MPH on this road). If that is the reasonable and proper rate for that road, to enforce anything lower would be a speed trap. The city keeps the 25 signs up in the hope that they discourage even faster driving. Likewise when they use radar they not only have to post a sign but do a survey, which has to be updated every few years -- you can't use radar to enforce something unfair. I'm not sure the radar signs on Embarcadero are even current (thus probably not even legal). BTW as I learned in driving school years ago (got a ticket), apart from "reasonable and proper at all time" you can't go over 55 anywhere unless it's explicitly posted. Actually I got all this initially from driving school, and then when Jim Warren went to the effort of getting the entire CA legal code online in the 90s, I actually read a good chunk of the vehicle code in particular.