4 ms·

"customers don't care either" People care about Right To Repair; that's why the FTC has been pressured into action recently on the matter (not that I entertain

"customers don't care either" People care about Right To Repair; that's why the FTC has been pressured into action recently on the matter (not that I entertain any hope that that bunch of bought-and-paid-for bureaucrats will actually achieve anything.) Framework has blown a vast hole through the false arguments offered in opposition. One must simply care. That's all it takes. Every manufacturer that has opposed RTR has the means and talent to do at least as well has Framework has done, and probably better. They just don't care. Thankfully the vestigial remains of our free market are sufficient to run the experiment.

epistasis 5y ago
Do customers care though? Perhaps customer advocates do. And that's probably the best place for it, since it's such a niche and wonky idea. And that's why "free markets" will never solve this. (And that's whether the "free" in free markets means freedom from regulations, or freedom for people to participate in the market). IMHO this is why the European system of strong regulatory bodies tends to work better than the US system of "wait for a customer to experience damages, then recoup through the courts, and then the companies learn their lesson."
- kaibee 5y ago
  > and then the companies learn their lesson. * analysts consider whether the cost > profit, if not then continue doing the same thing as before.
- topspin 5y ago
  And yet here we are; despite the 446e6 strong market place the EU supposedly represents their regulatory power has not delivered what we see here. No, instead we have an American company motivated by only the belief that their product will succeed in the market kicking open the door.
  - epistasis 5y ago
    Well the question is do you want every laptop to have the customizability of Framework's laptops, or should there instead be a minimum bar set for warranty/repairability? I think the second is probably what's needed, and the EU has been better both at imposing standards and ensuring warranties and repairability.
    - topspin 5y ago
      The answer is I want a competitive market filled with options that range from a completely sealed, disposable monoliths to machines like this Framework product where components are easily replaced and/or upgraded by me or any qualified or unqualified person I choose. And I want that _without_ the easily circumvented bureaucratic hellscape of lobbyists and captured regulators incestuously welding down the status quo in perpetuity.
      - JoshTriplett 5y ago
        Exactly. And in particular, I want companies showing the absolute limit of what's possible if you don't worry about modularity, and other companies like Framework showing how much of that they can provide while also using modular components. That's two different directions of innovation that both need pushing, as useful competitive forces that people care about.
        Dracophoenix 5y ago
        Ideally I would agree with you, but reality demonstrates that markets tend to converge on one standard rather than let two coexist. CISC vs RISC, Firewire vs USB, Floppy vs Zip, IrDA vs Bluetooth, etc. Now it's modular vs integrated.
        JoshTriplett 5y ago
        That happens with technologies where there's a strong benefit to standardization. Standardizing on USB and Bluetooth means your devices can interoperate. There's already no "standard" laptop design, just a set of desirable properties people want. And there's already no push to converge; there are many laptop vendors. There's plenty of room for a new vendor with different priorities (like modularity); there's more room for such a vendor than there is for one more undifferentiated vendor.
- jklinger410 5y ago
  "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." - Henry Ford
  - scns 5y ago
    Build it and they will come.
- vlunkr 5y ago
  > Do customers care though? Maybe they think they don't until one piece of their MBP fails and they have to pay Apple to replace 90% of their laptop.
someguydave 5y ago
All those companies want to hold out for the idea that they can monopolize some corner of the industry - none of them want to be turned into purveyors of commodity products in the face of heavy competition. But the future likely lies down that path.

epistasis 5y ago

Do customers care though? Perhaps customer advocates do. And that's probably the best place for it, since it's such a niche and wonky idea. And that's why "free markets" will never solve this. (And that's whether the "free" in free markets means freedom from regulations, or freedom for people to participate in the market). IMHO this is why the European system of strong regulatory bodies tends to work better than the US system of "wait for a customer to experience damages, then recoup through the courts, and then the companies learn their lesson."

kaibee 5y ago
> and then the companies learn their lesson. * analysts consider whether the cost > profit, if not then continue doing the same thing as before.
topspin 5y ago
And yet here we are; despite the 446e6 strong market place the EU supposedly represents their regulatory power has not delivered what we see here. No, instead we have an American company motivated by only the belief that their product will succeed in the market kicking open the door.
- epistasis 5y ago
  Well the question is do you want every laptop to have the customizability of Framework's laptops, or should there instead be a minimum bar set for warranty/repairability? I think the second is probably what's needed, and the EU has been better both at imposing standards and ensuring warranties and repairability.
  - topspin 5y ago
    The answer is I want a competitive market filled with options that range from a completely sealed, disposable monoliths to machines like this Framework product where components are easily replaced and/or upgraded by me or any qualified or unqualified person I choose. And I want that _without_ the easily circumvented bureaucratic hellscape of lobbyists and captured regulators incestuously welding down the status quo in perpetuity.
    - JoshTriplett 5y ago
      Exactly. And in particular, I want companies showing the absolute limit of what's possible if you don't worry about modularity, and other companies like Framework showing how much of that they can provide while also using modular components. That's two different directions of innovation that both need pushing, as useful competitive forces that people care about.
      - Dracophoenix 5y ago
        Ideally I would agree with you, but reality demonstrates that markets tend to converge on one standard rather than let two coexist. CISC vs RISC, Firewire vs USB, Floppy vs Zip, IrDA vs Bluetooth, etc. Now it's modular vs integrated.
        JoshTriplett 5y ago
        That happens with technologies where there's a strong benefit to standardization. Standardizing on USB and Bluetooth means your devices can interoperate. There's already no "standard" laptop design, just a set of desirable properties people want. And there's already no push to converge; there are many laptop vendors. There's plenty of room for a new vendor with different priorities (like modularity); there's more room for such a vendor than there is for one more undifferentiated vendor.
jklinger410 5y ago
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." - Henry Ford
- scns 5y ago
  Build it and they will come.
vlunkr 5y ago
> Do customers care though? Maybe they think they don't until one piece of their MBP fails and they have to pay Apple to replace 90% of their laptop.

someguydave 5y ago

All those companies want to hold out for the idea that they can monopolize some corner of the industry - none of them want to be turned into purveyors of commodity products in the face of heavy competition. But the future likely lies down that path.