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Why? I've ridden hundreds of kilometers on both the Xiaomi Scooter Pro 2 (the tall, small-wheels kind that companies like Lime use) and a custom built electric

Why? I've ridden hundreds of kilometers on both the Xiaomi Scooter Pro 2 (the tall, small-wheels kind that companies like Lime use) and a custom built electric kickbike and I don't consider them any more dangerous than a normal bicycle. They reach similar speeds and have similar acceleration and braking distances.

datavirtue 5y ago
Seasoned cyclist here...False.
- Toutouxc 5y ago
  I'm also a pretty seasoned cyclist (as in "a nice XC bike, wild downhill riding, steep technical sections, hitting speeds over 60 km/h" etc) and compared to anything you can do on a low-cost mountain bike, the e-scooters are very tame.
withinboredom 5y ago
Have you had to slam on the brakes in an emergency on them? That’s what makes them dangerous, because at that speed, slamming the brakes can get you killed.
- FeepingCreature 5y ago
  Yes, why would that be an issue? Maybe if you're standing on it weird. I have a scooter that I use to ride to work every day (ePF-1); I usually stand sideways with one foot in front, and as far as I can tell, braking is pretty stable in that pose. I could see braking being an issue if you're standing with both feet in parallel because it throws you onto and over the steering bar. But that's why you shouldn't stand that way. If you're sideways and you lose balance, you just jam your hip/thigh into the steering bar to stay stable, same as you do when driving one-handed. edit: I just google image searched "how to ride a scooter" and holy shit, are people suicidal?! Practically everyone in those pictures would go flying over the handlebars in an emergency brake. If that's the norm, I can see why people think escooters are dangerous.
  - sneak 5y ago
    Doesn't matter how you stand, that forward energy has to go somewhere when you stop. Certain stances might transmit more of it to the tires but if you need to stop fast enough you're going to need lots of core strength to make sure enough does to not die or be seriously injured. That's not a safe machine, in my view, if it requires an intense muscle reaction to save the rider.
    - FeepingCreature 5y ago
      Right, but it gives you the most stable shot at braking because the point of rotation of the scooter is the front wheel, and if you can brake with your front leg up against the nook of the steering column, you can support your deceleration pretty much in a straight line against that point, which is approximately as good as it gets. And even if you can't take that, you can still hipbrace the steering bar, which gives you almost as good a line - and even if you go flying, you'll probably be rotating around your feet which means you'll frontal facecheck the ground. Which is bad, but: if you're standing upright, then it's your terribly angled arms against the handlebars that have to take approximately half the deceleration force, which means you rapidly cross the point where your mass is above that line through the point of rotation, and then the steering bar basically flips your head against the ground with bonus rotational velocity. At which point you will take spinal damage, helmet or not. Effectively, the easiest way to check is if someone's front foot is either set well forward, or at an inward angle. Either is fine. If it's set forward, you can brake with a line through your foot (best case, but an exhausting pose); if it's at an inward angle, you automatically end up braking with your thigh against the steering column (second best case). If it's straight and upright, then you're in danger. Effectively, I'm not disagreeing, I'm saying I think scooters are primarily dangerous because on top of what you're saying, people also ride them in a horrifyingly unsafe way.
    - asdff 5y ago
      Scooters don't go that fast though, you only need to bleed a few mph of speed before you can just run off it and bail like a skateboard. I don't find the stopping distances any different than a bike. In both cases, the brakes overpower the rubber and you end up breaking traction if you really brake too hard so its best not to do that and do something more evasive. Much safer to bail off a scooter than a bike at least.
- Toutouxc 5y ago
  If you just slam the brakes without using your body to counteract the inevitable push up and forward, you're going flying. E-scooters, just like e-bikes, normal scooters, bicycles and motorbikes require the rider to ride with their whole body and weight.

datavirtue 5y ago

Seasoned cyclist here...False.

Toutouxc 5y ago
I'm also a pretty seasoned cyclist (as in "a nice XC bike, wild downhill riding, steep technical sections, hitting speeds over 60 km/h" etc) and compared to anything you can do on a low-cost mountain bike, the e-scooters are very tame.

withinboredom 5y ago

Have you had to slam on the brakes in an emergency on them? That’s what makes them dangerous, because at that speed, slamming the brakes can get you killed.

FeepingCreature 5y ago
Yes, why would that be an issue? Maybe if you're standing on it weird. I have a scooter that I use to ride to work every day (ePF-1); I usually stand sideways with one foot in front, and as far as I can tell, braking is pretty stable in that pose. I could see braking being an issue if you're standing with both feet in parallel because it throws you onto and over the steering bar. But that's why you shouldn't stand that way. If you're sideways and you lose balance, you just jam your hip/thigh into the steering bar to stay stable, same as you do when driving one-handed. edit: I just google image searched "how to ride a scooter" and holy shit, are people suicidal?! Practically everyone in those pictures would go flying over the handlebars in an emergency brake. If that's the norm, I can see why people think escooters are dangerous.
- sneak 5y ago
  Doesn't matter how you stand, that forward energy has to go somewhere when you stop. Certain stances might transmit more of it to the tires but if you need to stop fast enough you're going to need lots of core strength to make sure enough does to not die or be seriously injured. That's not a safe machine, in my view, if it requires an intense muscle reaction to save the rider.
  - FeepingCreature 5y ago
    Right, but it gives you the most stable shot at braking because the point of rotation of the scooter is the front wheel, and if you can brake with your front leg up against the nook of the steering column, you can support your deceleration pretty much in a straight line against that point, which is approximately as good as it gets. And even if you can't take that, you can still hipbrace the steering bar, which gives you almost as good a line - and even if you go flying, you'll probably be rotating around your feet which means you'll frontal facecheck the ground. Which is bad, but: if you're standing upright, then it's your terribly angled arms against the handlebars that have to take approximately half the deceleration force, which means you rapidly cross the point where your mass is above that line through the point of rotation, and then the steering bar basically flips your head against the ground with bonus rotational velocity. At which point you will take spinal damage, helmet or not. Effectively, the easiest way to check is if someone's front foot is either set well forward, or at an inward angle. Either is fine. If it's set forward, you can brake with a line through your foot (best case, but an exhausting pose); if it's at an inward angle, you automatically end up braking with your thigh against the steering column (second best case). If it's straight and upright, then you're in danger. Effectively, I'm not disagreeing, I'm saying I think scooters are primarily dangerous because on top of what you're saying, people also ride them in a horrifyingly unsafe way.
  - asdff 5y ago
    Scooters don't go that fast though, you only need to bleed a few mph of speed before you can just run off it and bail like a skateboard. I don't find the stopping distances any different than a bike. In both cases, the brakes overpower the rubber and you end up breaking traction if you really brake too hard so its best not to do that and do something more evasive. Much safer to bail off a scooter than a bike at least.
Toutouxc 5y ago
If you just slam the brakes without using your body to counteract the inevitable push up and forward, you're going flying. E-scooters, just like e-bikes, normal scooters, bicycles and motorbikes require the rider to ride with their whole body and weight.