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> I've never understood how this isn't a standard feature with standalone Kindles. Is this an accessibility issue? I work fairly extensively with ebook devices

> I've never understood how this isn't a standard feature with standalone Kindles. Is this an accessibility issue? I work fairly extensively with ebook devices and users in my job and this has never come up, I doubt it even occurs to most people, which probably answers your question. However, I also work quite a bit with accessibility (for which the Kindle is excellent for many common challenges that come with age) and I know users that this would be quite useful for if it was a standard feature, so I'm curious what your use case is.

morsch 5y ago
No, for me it's just a laziness issue. ;) I just enjoy not having to hold the device. I can just rest my arms wherever they naturally would rest. Or put them under the sheets when the bedroom is cold. Etc.
- Spivak 5y ago
  This is why I love playing games on my Switch. It's super noticeable now when I play on my PS4 that I have to think about holding the controller in front of me rather than just letting my arms fall.
  - kbenson 5y ago
    I'm confused. The switch has a screen and accelerometers. How does that that result in a situation you can just let your arms drop that you can't when playing the PS4?
    - danhor 5y ago
      If he's playing the switch docked, the split controllers mean that the arms can be moved freely. Normal controllers don't allow that
      - sleepybrett 5y ago
        Doesn't technically have to be docked to do this. It's how I use it on an airplane often. Screen on the tray table with it's little kickstand, arms to my sides maybe in my hoodie pockets. It took a little bit of getting used to strangely but once you do :thumbsup:
      - kbenson 5y ago
        Ah, I see. I really don't prefer having them split for a single game, so wasn't even thinking of that (in fact, I vastly prefer the pro controller if it's docked). Not that I've played it in quite a while. The kids usually have it and the docking capability broke a year or two ago (not the dock, other docks don't work either).
    - Hemospectrum 5y ago
      Joycons are the game controller equivalent of a split keyboard. If you're using a stock PS4 controller, your hands need to be close together, and your legs obviously can't be in the way. For what it's worth, it's possible to use joycons with a PS4, if you have the appropriate adapters and chain them together just right.
    - kroltan 5y ago
      The answer is twofold: - The PS4 controller's range is VERY limited, even playing crouched on the sofa with your legs interrupting LOS between the console and the controller can cause connection issues. - The Switch's tiny split controllers (the JoyCons, though there is also a traditionally-shaped Pro Controller) have very good reception, and being small and split means your arms can be in different positions. I sometimes play lying on the bed with the console on a stand in front of me, and my arms under the sheets, when it's cold, for example. It's a tiny thing but is mighty convenient when you feel like it.
      - tailspin2019 5y ago
        > The PS4 controller's range is VERY limited, even playing crouched on the sofa with your legs interrupting LOS between the console and the controller can cause connection issues. Odd, I’ve never once experienced any sort of issue like this with my PS4 controllers. Makes me wonder if there could be something else environmental going on, or if I’m just lucky… EDIT: Just double checked and they use Bluetooth with no obvious need tor maintaining line of sight? (I should have remembered this as I’ve used my PS4 controllers with Raspberry Pis over Bluetooth before). So I guess localised radio interference will have the potential to affect range.
        kroltan 5y ago
        It's probably interference then, when I had access to a PS4 I lived in a big apartment block with tons of WiFi and probably Bluetooth devices around. In any case, the Switch's controllers fared much better, even though both consoles were on basically the same place. YMMV, I suppose?
      - tomc1985 5y ago
        Funny, I've never had issues with PS4 controller range but my joycons have trouble with dropped inputs if I use them more than a few feet away from the switch Not to say the PS4 controllers are good... they just love to drain their batteries when I'm not using them, and they only seem willing to charge on the PS4 and only when its in sleep mode. TBH this hassle makes me use the PS4 pretty much never, which makes the problem worse
- diffCtx 5y ago
  You implemented an entirely novel system. Somehow that’s lazy? Weird priority maybe. Sounds like more effort was involved than just using functionality that’s there.
- derefr 5y ago
  I think people just think of an e-reader the same way they do a book, and so use the same solutions they use for not-having-to-hold-up books: lecterns and stands, bed/bath tables, suspended clamps, etc.
- stinkytaco 5y ago
  Fair enough. I can see this being useful for someone with Parkinson's or even someone who just has trouble regularly lifting their arm (they can lift a book and place it, but flipping the pages would just tire their arm out). I now wish there was a straightforward remote control you could buy with the Kindle.
  - morsch 5y ago
    Exactly. Like I said, I'm astonished that this hasn't been a thing you can buy for a long time. The new Kindles come with a USB-C connector, maybe that changes things.
- jorgesborges 5y ago
  When I’m in bed I often turn the page with my nose, as one hand is holding the kindle and the other is holding hands with my SO, or petting the cat. So I understand the laziness and am interested in this but it’s a lot of work for a lazy person. Edit: while we’re on the topic can we solve accidentally dropping phones on our face in bed?
  - crackercrews 5y ago
    There are a bunch of bed mounts for smartphones and tablets. [1] 1: https://www.amazon.com/phone-holder-bed/s?k=phone+holder+for+bed https://www.amazon.com/phone-holder-bed/s?k=phone+holder+for...
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    The kindle with page turning buttons (e.g the kindle keyboard) we’re ideal for this . You could hold and page turn with one hand.
  - roland35 5y ago
    I may be greasier than average, but if I did that there would be a pretty big smudge on the screen!
acomjean 5y ago
Another use case is musicians. There is a whole market of foot pedals for tablets/e-readers to flip music scores and now can do so with their feet.
Rebelgecko 5y ago
I'm semi-concerned about RSI from having to do the "swipe" gesture on my Kindle over and over. Maybe those fears are unfolded but I can see the desire even for abled people to flip pages more easily on devices that don't have built in buttons.
- stinkytaco 5y ago
  In one of the early episodes of 99% Invisible they look at the Oxo vegetable peeler. The conclusion is that by pursuing accessible design, they improved the experience for everyone, which is a theme they regularly return to. It's something I try to think about when "designing" an experience, partially because it narrows my focus quite a bit and is much less overwhelming that trying to think of the myriad ways something might be approached.

morsch 5y ago

No, for me it's just a laziness issue. ;) I just enjoy not having to hold the device. I can just rest my arms wherever they naturally would rest. Or put them under the sheets when the bedroom is cold. Etc.

Spivak 5y ago
This is why I love playing games on my Switch. It's super noticeable now when I play on my PS4 that I have to think about holding the controller in front of me rather than just letting my arms fall.
- kbenson 5y ago
  I'm confused. The switch has a screen and accelerometers. How does that that result in a situation you can just let your arms drop that you can't when playing the PS4?
  - danhor 5y ago
    If he's playing the switch docked, the split controllers mean that the arms can be moved freely. Normal controllers don't allow that
    - sleepybrett 5y ago
      Doesn't technically have to be docked to do this. It's how I use it on an airplane often. Screen on the tray table with it's little kickstand, arms to my sides maybe in my hoodie pockets. It took a little bit of getting used to strangely but once you do :thumbsup:
    - kbenson 5y ago
      Ah, I see. I really don't prefer having them split for a single game, so wasn't even thinking of that (in fact, I vastly prefer the pro controller if it's docked). Not that I've played it in quite a while. The kids usually have it and the docking capability broke a year or two ago (not the dock, other docks don't work either).
  - Hemospectrum 5y ago
    Joycons are the game controller equivalent of a split keyboard. If you're using a stock PS4 controller, your hands need to be close together, and your legs obviously can't be in the way. For what it's worth, it's possible to use joycons with a PS4, if you have the appropriate adapters and chain them together just right.
  - kroltan 5y ago
    The answer is twofold: - The PS4 controller's range is VERY limited, even playing crouched on the sofa with your legs interrupting LOS between the console and the controller can cause connection issues. - The Switch's tiny split controllers (the JoyCons, though there is also a traditionally-shaped Pro Controller) have very good reception, and being small and split means your arms can be in different positions. I sometimes play lying on the bed with the console on a stand in front of me, and my arms under the sheets, when it's cold, for example. It's a tiny thing but is mighty convenient when you feel like it.
    - tailspin2019 5y ago
      > The PS4 controller's range is VERY limited, even playing crouched on the sofa with your legs interrupting LOS between the console and the controller can cause connection issues. Odd, I’ve never once experienced any sort of issue like this with my PS4 controllers. Makes me wonder if there could be something else environmental going on, or if I’m just lucky… EDIT: Just double checked and they use Bluetooth with no obvious need tor maintaining line of sight? (I should have remembered this as I’ve used my PS4 controllers with Raspberry Pis over Bluetooth before). So I guess localised radio interference will have the potential to affect range.
      - kroltan 5y ago
        It's probably interference then, when I had access to a PS4 I lived in a big apartment block with tons of WiFi and probably Bluetooth devices around. In any case, the Switch's controllers fared much better, even though both consoles were on basically the same place. YMMV, I suppose?
    - tomc1985 5y ago
      Funny, I've never had issues with PS4 controller range but my joycons have trouble with dropped inputs if I use them more than a few feet away from the switch Not to say the PS4 controllers are good... they just love to drain their batteries when I'm not using them, and they only seem willing to charge on the PS4 and only when its in sleep mode. TBH this hassle makes me use the PS4 pretty much never, which makes the problem worse
diffCtx 5y ago
You implemented an entirely novel system. Somehow that’s lazy? Weird priority maybe. Sounds like more effort was involved than just using functionality that’s there.
derefr 5y ago
I think people just think of an e-reader the same way they do a book, and so use the same solutions they use for not-having-to-hold-up books: lecterns and stands, bed/bath tables, suspended clamps, etc.
stinkytaco 5y ago
Fair enough. I can see this being useful for someone with Parkinson's or even someone who just has trouble regularly lifting their arm (they can lift a book and place it, but flipping the pages would just tire their arm out). I now wish there was a straightforward remote control you could buy with the Kindle.
- morsch 5y ago
  Exactly. Like I said, I'm astonished that this hasn't been a thing you can buy for a long time. The new Kindles come with a USB-C connector, maybe that changes things.
jorgesborges 5y ago
When I’m in bed I often turn the page with my nose, as one hand is holding the kindle and the other is holding hands with my SO, or petting the cat. So I understand the laziness and am interested in this but it’s a lot of work for a lazy person. Edit: while we’re on the topic can we solve accidentally dropping phones on our face in bed?
- crackercrews 5y ago
  There are a bunch of bed mounts for smartphones and tablets. [1] 1: https://www.amazon.com/phone-holder-bed/s?k=phone+holder+for+bed https://www.amazon.com/phone-holder-bed/s?k=phone+holder+for...
- nicoburns 5y ago
  The kindle with page turning buttons (e.g the kindle keyboard) we’re ideal for this . You could hold and page turn with one hand.
- roland35 5y ago
  I may be greasier than average, but if I did that there would be a pretty big smudge on the screen!

acomjean 5y ago

Another use case is musicians. There is a whole market of foot pedals for tablets/e-readers to flip music scores and now can do so with their feet.

Rebelgecko 5y ago

I'm semi-concerned about RSI from having to do the "swipe" gesture on my Kindle over and over. Maybe those fears are unfolded but I can see the desire even for abled people to flip pages more easily on devices that don't have built in buttons.

stinkytaco 5y ago
In one of the early episodes of 99% Invisible they look at the Oxo vegetable peeler. The conclusion is that by pursuing accessible design, they improved the experience for everyone, which is a theme they regularly return to. It's something I try to think about when "designing" an experience, partially because it narrows my focus quite a bit and is much less overwhelming that trying to think of the myriad ways something might be approached.