3 ms·

From my understanding: gas in USA is heavily subsidized. The cost of fuel in Europe is more the true cost. - gas-loving American living in Norway

Kim_Bruning 5y ago
I know the netherlands actually taxes fuel something like 100%, which is why people try to buy gas in germany and belgium when then can.
- Symbiote 5y ago
  Most European countries tax petrol "about" 100%. It's about 10¢/L cheaper in Germany or Belgium. https://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html#Petrol%20and%20diesel%20prices%20in%20Europe https://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html#Petrol...
baud147258 5y ago
> The cost of fuel in Europe is more the true cost. the true cost, plus whatever taxes the local government have decided to levy
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  True, because there are no externalities of fossil fuel consumption. Or at least not ones that beneficiaries today have to worry about.
  - cinntaile 5y ago
    One of the biggest issues right now is that we have to worry about what the future will look like? That's exactly what is meant with externalities as well, you profit from your behavior without having to compensate for or deal with the consequences. You're redefining the very definition of an externality.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      It was a tongue-in-cheek comment meant to highlight the true reason to be against taxes to cause reduction in fossil fuel consumption.
      - cinntaile 5y ago
        Oh. I misunderstood sorry.
      - baud147258 5y ago
        though I don't feel like the money the government is getting from fuel taxes is used to reduce fossil fuel consumption
meragrin_ 5y ago
> From my understanding: gas in USA is heavily subsidized. From my understanding, gas in the USA is not heavily subsidized. If it is, then everything is. It does not receive any special treatment.
- teh_klev 5y ago
  I think your understanding might be a bit wrong: https://www.google.com/search?q=us+gasoline+subsidies https://www.google.com/search?q=us+gasoline+subsidies
  - meragrin_ 5y ago
    Still not seeing any subsidies. Subtracting costs from revenue is not a subsidy.
    - teh_klev 5y ago
      Read the first article: https://www.brookings.edu/research/reforming-global-fossil-fuel-subsidies-how-the-united-states-can-restart-international-cooperation/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/reforming-global-fossil-f... "The Environmental and Energy Study Institute reported that direct subsidies to the fossil fuel industry totaled $20 billion per year, with 80% going toward oil and gas. In addition, from 2019 to 2023, tax subsidies are expected to reduce federal revenue by around $11.5 billion. Considering that production subsidies grew 28% between 2017 and 2019, the United States will be under a lot of scrutiny from other countries wanting to see evidence of reform before making their own commitments."
      - meragrin_ 5y ago
        Perhaps you can point the exact text for the subsidies explicitly for US gasoline which are not related to how the companies subtract their costs to determine their income. There might be something for the other fossil fuels, but I see nothing as far as oil/gasoline.

Kim_Bruning 5y ago

I know the netherlands actually taxes fuel something like 100%, which is why people try to buy gas in germany and belgium when then can.

Symbiote 5y ago
Most European countries tax petrol "about" 100%. It's about 10¢/L cheaper in Germany or Belgium. https://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html#Petrol%20and%20diesel%20prices%20in%20Europe https://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html#Petrol...

baud147258 5y ago

> The cost of fuel in Europe is more the true cost. the true cost, plus whatever taxes the local government have decided to levy

lotsofpulp 5y ago
True, because there are no externalities of fossil fuel consumption. Or at least not ones that beneficiaries today have to worry about.
- cinntaile 5y ago
  One of the biggest issues right now is that we have to worry about what the future will look like? That's exactly what is meant with externalities as well, you profit from your behavior without having to compensate for or deal with the consequences. You're redefining the very definition of an externality.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    It was a tongue-in-cheek comment meant to highlight the true reason to be against taxes to cause reduction in fossil fuel consumption.
    - cinntaile 5y ago
      Oh. I misunderstood sorry.
    - baud147258 5y ago
      though I don't feel like the money the government is getting from fuel taxes is used to reduce fossil fuel consumption

meragrin_ 5y ago

> From my understanding: gas in USA is heavily subsidized. From my understanding, gas in the USA is not heavily subsidized. If it is, then everything is. It does not receive any special treatment.

teh_klev 5y ago
I think your understanding might be a bit wrong: https://www.google.com/search?q=us+gasoline+subsidies https://www.google.com/search?q=us+gasoline+subsidies
- meragrin_ 5y ago
  Still not seeing any subsidies. Subtracting costs from revenue is not a subsidy.
  - teh_klev 5y ago
    Read the first article: https://www.brookings.edu/research/reforming-global-fossil-fuel-subsidies-how-the-united-states-can-restart-international-cooperation/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/reforming-global-fossil-f... "The Environmental and Energy Study Institute reported that direct subsidies to the fossil fuel industry totaled $20 billion per year, with 80% going toward oil and gas. In addition, from 2019 to 2023, tax subsidies are expected to reduce federal revenue by around $11.5 billion. Considering that production subsidies grew 28% between 2017 and 2019, the United States will be under a lot of scrutiny from other countries wanting to see evidence of reform before making their own commitments."
    - meragrin_ 5y ago
      Perhaps you can point the exact text for the subsidies explicitly for US gasoline which are not related to how the companies subtract their costs to determine their income. There might be something for the other fossil fuels, but I see nothing as far as oil/gasoline.