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Millennials Not Having Babies Because of Climate Change
- Cryptonic 5y agoI have a better idea. Millenials should get 1-3 babies (median 2) because then mostly people mankind needs (sustainability aware people) get the babies, and teach them good ethics. Instead science deniers should not be convinced to vaccinate, so they and their surroundings die out mid term when corvid or the next pandemic reaches them.
- josephcsible 5y agoAre you really suggesting that you want everyone with different political beliefs than yourself to all die?
- vibrato2 5y agoHe’s one of the good people who can tell us the right way to do things. Never mind the 150k vaccine deaths.
- drooby 5y ago150k vaccine deaths? Source please.
- vibrato2 5y agoThere’s a lot of money suppressing this number. Here’s some analysis for that estimate. http://www.skirsch.com/covid/Deaths.pdf http://www.skirsch.com/covid/Deaths.pdf
- vibrato2 5y agoI added a source but hacker news isn’t fond of analysis or thinking in regards to political issues; it was flagged.
- Cycl0ps 5y agoReally? Let me try https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaers-deaths/fact-check-vaers-reported-vaccine-deaths-have-not-been-confirmed-or-deemed-causal-by-cdc-idUSL1N2MZ2H8 https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaers-deaths/fact-...
- josephcsible 5y agoThat's not the link that GP tried to post.
- drooby 5y agoI saw your link...I would like an explanation for why it was flagged and removed.
- thehappypm 5y agoIt's because it's nonsense. ~200M Americans have received a COVID vaccine. Some of those people died afterwards. Correlation does not imply causation.
- drooby 5y agoThere is plenty of nonsense on HN. I'd like to evaluate it for myself.
- chownie 5y agoIt might be getting flagged because the author of the PDF started out openly with the objective of linking deaths to vaccines. That or that it's not an objective document, it reads like a hit piece on vaccines with shaky evidence and random unsourced testimonials. When you read PDF with that in mind, the author's repeated pointing to the massive jump in unverified self-report stats on VAERS (right after the president of the United States cast aspersions on vaccinations to boot) doesn't really feel that compelling.
- 5y ago
- NortySpock 5y ago"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." -- Hitchens's razor
- vibrato2 5y agoNow apply that to long term vaccine safety. Ooh hitchens is fun when his logic goes against theistic religion. Not so enjoyed when it works against the modern religion of scientism.
- NortySpock 5y agoCompare long term vaccine safety to long-lasting after-effects of covid-19.
- vibrato2 5y agoHow? There’s no data
- Nihilartikel 5y agoHow did they miss the increased mortality during he vaccine testing period? Sample size too small for representative casualties, or organized cover up?
- us_vs_them 5y agoThey do a fine job of it on their own. Modern-day US conservatism is a suicide cult. Climate change? Nah, it ain't real, nevermind the fires and floods. Covid? Nah, it ain't real, those hundreds of thousands dead are just faking it. Vaccines? Nah, they ain't real, nevermind all the lives they've saved since, oh, the dark ages. Healthcare? Who needs that, people should just be free enough to die young and die poor. Crime and guns? As long as it's white people and cops killing everyone else, it doesn't really count. Foreign policy? Let's just bomb all the darkies, half-assedly run what's left of their countries, and blame the Democrats when their children become new enemies. The kids? Ah, don't educate them, don't feed them; their poor, sick parents will take care of them, or if they're not wanted, use a coathanger. What's the problem there? You have a half-dozen fascists in a courtroom, a couple hundred idiots in suits dancing around the capitol, surrounded by a murderous death cult that uses violence over ethics at every opportunity. Power over policy, party over country, violence over law, selfishness above all, all under the guise of freedom. These few people, constituting maybe 2% of the world population at most, are killing the entire rest of the world every single day. But yeah, let's just pretend that's not happening, and it's really the scientists and the leftists threatening the future of humanity.
- dang 5y agoWe've banned this account for using HN for political/ideological battle. That's not allowed here, regardless of which ideology you favor, because it destroys what this site is supposed to be for, i.e. curious and thoughtful conversation. Political battle is the opposite of that. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future, but please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- Cryptonic 5y agoNo. That's not what the letters say there. Even here you try straw man arguments. I was talking about science deniers. And about the world needing less of them instead of less people in general.
- Cryptonic 5y agoActually reading again, sounds like you exacly know who in your country are science deniers.
- JohnClark1337 5y agoLiberal Activist Millennials*
- Rijek33 5y agoHighly religious people like Mormons and Amish have 3 kids on average, same for highly religious societies in Africa and Asia. Fun times ahead. Ironically from a darwinian point of view religion is a great adaptation for fitness
- tincholio 5y agoReminds me of the intro to Idiocracy...
- 4asnarkycomment 5y agoOr non-religion is a precursor to the kind of moral weakness that stunts a natural desire to reproduce? Maybe those who believe they are bringing souls into the world, rather than bags of meat and water, tend to have a more positive outlook on having children? Maybe those with no religion let the media's doomsday climate change scenarios become their version of Revelation?
- jarpschop 5y agoThe difference with revelation is that climate change is real. It is happening and will continue to happen.
- 4asnarkycomment 5y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decian_persecution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decian_persecution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diocletianic_Persecution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diocletianic_Persecution The iniquity talked about in Revelation has occured, occurs currently, and will continue to occur. Revelation has predicted more about human nature and the nature of government than climate change scientists could ever hope to.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago> Maybe those who believe they are bringing souls into the world, rather than bags of meat and water, tend to have a more positive outlook on having children? I think it is more likely that following religions where you can only have sex in the context of attempted procreation leads to more children.
- mc32 5y agoSo apparently it's not all Millennials but mostly millennials in industrialized countries who are fretting. Millennials in places which would suffer the brunt, if projections are correct, are having babies!
- horns4lyfe 5y agoBecause this is the angsty hand-wringing of people with enough time and money to actually sit and make up problems (not saying climate change is made up, just the idea that it’s the biggest worry when it comes to having a child).
- bamboozled 5y agoHave you considered that people with time and money also might be better educated and have time to actually research and think things through?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- us_vs_them 5y agoProbably a good thing. It's industrial & post-industrial babies that produce most of the climatic impacts anyway. The carbon footprint of a western baby is several times higher than that of someone born in a developing country. The more we breed, the more they die.
- mc32 5y agoSo if it's going to be cataclysmic or there is going to be suffering due to climate change, who is better prepared to soften the consequences? Or, if being a developing country is "better" for climate change, would it make sense for industrialized countries to become "developing" countries?
- cafard 5y agoHaven't read it, but Gunter Grass wrote a novel, Headbirths: Or, the Germans Are Dying Off. The boomers didn't have babies because of Vietnam (at least once that didn't work for deferments), ecology, what have you. Then they did.
- horns4lyfe 5y agoIf you live in a place like the US, in the context of world history there’s never been a safer time to have a child. These people need to turn off the news and take a walk.
- Dracophoenix 5y agoThere's never been a more expensive time to have one either.
- CarelessExpert 5y ago> there’s never been a safer time to have a child. Now. The entire point is that people are afraid about the future. Honestly, did you even read the article?
- mgh2 5y agoWe need more data, but the silent generation did not seem to be that concerned during the cold war. I think this article points to a culture shift and the success of liberal pro-choice propaganda if anything.
- CarelessExpert 5y ago> but the silent generation did not seem to be that concerned during the cold war. The silent generation didn't grow up expecting reproductive choices. And that's ignoring the fact that nuclear war was just theoretical. Catastrophic climate change is actually happening. > the success for liberal pro-choice propaganda if anything. Giving people access to birth control and condoms is propaganda?
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago> And that's ignoring the fact that nuclear war was just theoretical. Not after Hiroshima, it wasn't. I would say that the dread of nuclear war was greater than the dread of climate change. You think we could be hosed in 100 years? Thinking we could all be dead in 15 minutes is... different. And the fear seemed more palpable at the time. I saw the way my dad moved when the Emergency Warning System came on the TV. He doesn't react like that to climate change warnings...
- monological 5y agoEveryone talks about climate change and then they go order like 20 things off Amazon. They participate in the system in a thousand different ways that perpetuates our reliance on fossil fuels. Because in reality they like to virtue signal instead of doing what is needed, which is sacrifice.
- supercanuck 5y agohttps://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-should-improve-society-somewhat https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-should-improve-society-som...
- mc32 5y agoIndeed. If they meant it, they would shut down galas and awards shows and just email or phone them in, if they mean something. Instead they jet people in from all over the world, waste tons on new wardrobes for a one time use, buy multiple multi-million dollar properties adding to unnecessary demand, and then top it all off by showing us their fabulous yachts whiling away their time. You go, you protectors of the environment! And they have the gall to tell the little people what to do.
- cameronh90 5y agoI'm not having kids because it's too expensive. Nursery costs near me in London are approximately £18k/year per child. Basically it comes down to choosing between buying a house and having a kid.
- nyokodo 5y ago> Basically it comes down to choosing between buying a house and having a kid. If you already had a kid but everything else in your life was the same, what would you do?
- cameronh90 5y agoI don't know. It's not something I've ever given too much thought to because it's too expensive to realistically consider.
- nyokodo 5y ago> it's too expensive to realistically consider Too expensive under what constraints and how impossible is violating those constraints? For instance, does the UK have cheaper areas to live with childcare costs in-line with incomes? Can you or the other parent take a career holiday to look after the children? Your lifestyle expenses are so reduced you have no room to make savings and apply it to your child?
- cameronh90 5y agoToo expensive compared to what I am willing to spend, so it doesn't warrant any further consideration. There's simply no situation where the opportunity cost and actual costs of a child through ages 0 to 18 are anywhere near what I am willing to spend, no matter where I live in the UK. I don't want to move or impact my (or my partner's) career to that extent. Thinking any more about it would be like me trying to decide which Tesla I would want when I wouldn't even be willing to spend the money for a Toyota Yaris.
- 5y ago
- rebelos 5y agoWhat's especially stupid about this is that almost nobody knows that we have a quite workable backup plan (solar geoengineering). It's not ideal but at some point it will have to be deployed. It'll be relatively cost effective and can be 'tuned' quite easily.
- makerofspoons 5y agoSolar geoengineering isn't a solution for ocean acidification, and once we start we have to keep doing it until we figure out carbon sequestration.
- lost-found 5y agoYes injecting more things into the atmosphere—what could go wrong!
- chaorace 5y agoThis resonates with me. I'm a Millenial(?[1]) and I've chosen not to have children on the basis of climate change. Talk all you want about how climate change is not a personal issue -- the decision to have children (and how many) is the singlemost environmentally impactful decision you will ever have direct, personal agency in making. For me, it's practicing what I preach, because I view climate change as the most pressing existential threat to our species (albeit on a longer timescale than my own life). I have other justificiations, too -- in terms of life priorities, I simply consider children as "nice to have". For someone on the fence like me, this is enough. If you disagree... more power to you! It's your decision to make, and I mean that earnestly. [1]: Born 1996
- fknorangesite 5y ago> I'm a Millenial(? 1996) These lines are by nature fuzzy and a bit arbitrary, but yeah just barely: > In order to keep the Millennial generation analytically meaningful, and to begin looking at what might be unique about the next cohort, Pew Research Center decided [in 2018] to use 1996 as the last birth year for Millennials for our future work. Anyone born between 1981 and 1996 ... is considered a Millennial https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/17/where-millennials-end-and-generation-z-begins/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/17/where-mille...
- JohnWhigham 5y agoIt's your prerogative not to have children, but if you're doing it for the climate, just know that there's going to be plenty of others in developing countries that will more than offset your decision not to have kids.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y agoThey will have those children regardless of OP's choices.
- JohnWhigham 5y agoI know, which is precisely why declaring one is not going to have kids because of "the climate" is nonsensical.
- Cycl0ps 5y agoAnyone who sincerely believes any story starting with "$Group not $X because $Y" is part of the problem.
- AnimalMuppet 5y agoWhat problem do you think they're part of?
- Proven 5y agoI'm sure the right amount of taxpayer-financed programs combined with a 4 day work week would help a lot!
- mgh2 5y agoThe best lies contain some element of truth, for they need to be believable Instagram...Today's tech industry & social media has exacerbated corporations' ability to brainwash the masses We don't know if this is another marketing stunt/scam like recycling, sugar vs. fat, diamonds, bottled water, milk, etc. Climate change might be true, but it is those who use it for personal gain that twist truths to their advantage. Think of Elon Musk, crypto, pro-choice... that use social media pervasively to shape the narrative. Be very careful of these invisible forces that affect our behaviors unconsciously. Always search for truth, be a critical thinker. 1. https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/897692090/how-big-oil-misled-the-public-into-believing-plastic-would-be-recycled https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/897692090/how-big-oil-misled-... 2. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074/50-years-ago-sugar-industry-quietly-paid-scientists-to-point-blame-at-fat https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074... 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eIDBV4Mpek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eIDBV4Mpek 4. https://trendguardian.medium.com/free-will-a-rich-fairy-tale-4fecf8095812 https://trendguardian.medium.com/free-will-a-rich-fairy-tale...
- gruez 5y agoWho's benefiting from less kids?
- mgh2 5y agoWe don't know for sure, but the article seems to have some clues. > Green: But are there shared characteristics along lines of education? Do people share a certain progressive political outlook? > Kallman: They tend to be at least college-educated. And they tend to be, certainly, pro-choice. For the most part, they’re on the left of the political spectrum. They’re certainly, on the whole, younger. Our house parties have been not exclusively white, but they’re pretty white. Maybe a pro-choice political propaganda. Wild guess: Planned Parenthood? With marketing, everything is on sale.
- simonsarris 5y agoI can't knock some individual's decision, it is theirs alone to make, but the decision-making process strikes me as so extremely odd that it is hard to relate, and it's very difficult to believe that this is really about climate. It is almost in some sense insulting to one's ancestors, who traveled over glacial passes in search of the next 8,000lb mammal to eat. What would they think of these environmental setbacks as a reason to lay down your future? I am reminded of W.H. Auden's poem, Ode to the Medieval Poets, which opens: Chaucer, Langland, Douglas, Dunbar, with all your brother Anons, how on earth did you ever manage, without anaesthetics or plumbing, in daily peril from witches, warlocks, lepers, The Holy Office, foreign mercenaries burning as they came, to write so cheerfully, with no grimaces of self-pathos... Something just seems deeply off about the modern pessimism, and it definitely did not start with climate. Climate seems like a salient thing for people to point to, but something that is merely salient in this rhetorical way. Even the people in this thread saying that this resonates with them mention that climate is just one of an array of reasons for them. It's not like, after all, birth rates plummeting below replacement for many populations had anything to do with climate reasons until very, very recently. I think we need to look a little deeper than that. (full text of that poem: https://simonsarris.com/ode-to-the-Medieval-Poets https://simonsarris.com/ode-to-the-Medieval-Poets)
- throwacherry 5y agoHard to relate to you, but you can try to understand. Insulting to our ancestors? Is it really, if one's making this decision for the love of all life on Earth, wishing to reduce harm and suffering caused by our unsustainable way of life? Pessimism. Optimism. About the climate. Not about the climate. Deeply off or deeply on. We can do psychoanalysis all day, but reasons for declining birth rates are well-researched. The world is not running out of humans anytime soon, while nature and other living beings could use our help (or lack of harmful actions) now. So let's do that.