7 ms·

> It has nothing to do with "champagne socialism" ... The author, who does not seem to have come within a thousand miles of any other work than armchair pontif

by nanis 5y ago

> It has nothing to do with "champagne socialism" ... The author, who does not seem to have come within a thousand miles of any other work than armchair pontification, is one for thinking it'd be great to have such labor unions everywhere. A gallon of gasoline in Denmark $7.60. Sales tax in Denmark 25%. I love Denmark but I am also familiar with what small business in Denmark have to put up with to survive.

bantunes 5y ago
Those high taxes are only a problem if you don't get anything for them. Pretty sure people in Denmark get their money's worth.
- OskarS 5y ago
  Also: gasoline taxes has fuck-all to do with labor unions.
  - oluwie 5y ago
    why are we so stuck on gasoline prices all of a sudden?
    - philjohn 5y ago
      it's something tangible that has gone up since last year that a certain segment of the political spectrum are using to beat the other with, intoning that it's all their fault. In reality, gas prices are up all over the world because of pent up demand as things open up as we slowly come out of the pandemic.
nkristoffersen 5y ago
From my understanding: gas in USA is heavily subsidized. The cost of fuel in Europe is more the true cost. - gas-loving American living in Norway
- Kim_Bruning 5y ago
  I know the netherlands actually taxes fuel something like 100%, which is why people try to buy gas in germany and belgium when then can.
  - Symbiote 5y ago
    Most European countries tax petrol "about" 100%. It's about 10¢/L cheaper in Germany or Belgium. https://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html#Petrol%20and%20diesel%20prices%20in%20Europe https://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html#Petrol...
- baud147258 5y ago
  > The cost of fuel in Europe is more the true cost. the true cost, plus whatever taxes the local government have decided to levy
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    True, because there are no externalities of fossil fuel consumption. Or at least not ones that beneficiaries today have to worry about.
    - cinntaile 5y ago
      One of the biggest issues right now is that we have to worry about what the future will look like? That's exactly what is meant with externalities as well, you profit from your behavior without having to compensate for or deal with the consequences. You're redefining the very definition of an externality.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        It was a tongue-in-cheek comment meant to highlight the true reason to be against taxes to cause reduction in fossil fuel consumption.
Tepix 5y ago
The true price of a gallon of gasoline is probably higher than $7.60 if you account for the lasting damage to the planet. We are subsidizing the use of non-renewables in general by not taxing them enough (or even subsidizing them).
- nanis 5y ago
  Conflating cost and price is a common habit it seems. You get paid $22. That gets you about 2.9 gallons of gasoline in Denmark which converts to about $10 in the United States. So, talking about how much the gross pay of Danish workers is without thinking at all about what they can afford to buy with that money is a true mark of economic ignorance. The original point was that Matt Bruenig is a champagne socialist. "Denmark is great" is not a counter-argument to that.
  - Kim_Bruning 5y ago
    I'm pretty sure people in Denmark are not as tied to gasoline as they are in the USA. The country is smaller to begin with, and likely has better public transport, cycling, and pedestrian facilities. I guess the next major costs to compare are rent and health insurance?
    - liversage 5y ago
      Health care is free in Denmark. You don't need insurance. If you really want to you can buy insurance to lower the cost of some treatments that are not covered like physiotherapy, dentistry etc.
  - nielsbot 5y ago
    But you’re only talking about gasoline prices.
  - elzbardico 5y ago
    Ok, let's now compare the price of a medical procedure...
  - consp 5y ago
runemadsen 5y ago
You can't just throw out numbers like "25% sales tax" and think that it paints a clear picture of how it is to live and work in a country like Denmark. I'm Danish and have lived in the US for 13 years. I have owned companies in both countries. Denmark is without question superior in almost every aspect when it comes to running a business. As a note, my personal tax rate in the US is not that much lower than my Danish tax, and in Denmark I get free health care, free education, free support if I'm struggling, and a unified, digital service for registering and running my company.
mrweasel 5y ago
You do realize that Denmark is consistently ranked as one of the easiest countries to do business in, in front of countries like the US (not much a head of the US).
heurisko 5y ago
> The author, who does not seem to have come within a thousand miles of any other work than armchair pontification, is one for thinking it'd be great to have such labor unions everywhere. Thinking it's a good idea to have strong trades unions, if you don't happen to be in a union, does not mean you are a "champagne socialist". Trade unionism and state socialism are not the same.

by nanis 5y ago

bantunes 5y ago

Those high taxes are only a problem if you don't get anything for them. Pretty sure people in Denmark get their money's worth.

OskarS 5y ago
Also: gasoline taxes has fuck-all to do with labor unions.
- oluwie 5y ago
  why are we so stuck on gasoline prices all of a sudden?
  - philjohn 5y ago
    it's something tangible that has gone up since last year that a certain segment of the political spectrum are using to beat the other with, intoning that it's all their fault. In reality, gas prices are up all over the world because of pent up demand as things open up as we slowly come out of the pandemic.

nkristoffersen 5y ago

From my understanding: gas in USA is heavily subsidized. The cost of fuel in Europe is more the true cost. - gas-loving American living in Norway

Kim_Bruning 5y ago
I know the netherlands actually taxes fuel something like 100%, which is why people try to buy gas in germany and belgium when then can.
- Symbiote 5y ago
  Most European countries tax petrol "about" 100%. It's about 10¢/L cheaper in Germany or Belgium. https://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html#Petrol%20and%20diesel%20prices%20in%20Europe https://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html#Petrol...
baud147258 5y ago
> The cost of fuel in Europe is more the true cost. the true cost, plus whatever taxes the local government have decided to levy
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  True, because there are no externalities of fossil fuel consumption. Or at least not ones that beneficiaries today have to worry about.
  - cinntaile 5y ago
    One of the biggest issues right now is that we have to worry about what the future will look like? That's exactly what is meant with externalities as well, you profit from your behavior without having to compensate for or deal with the consequences. You're redefining the very definition of an externality.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      It was a tongue-in-cheek comment meant to highlight the true reason to be against taxes to cause reduction in fossil fuel consumption.

Tepix 5y ago

The true price of a gallon of gasoline is probably higher than $7.60 if you account for the lasting damage to the planet. We are subsidizing the use of non-renewables in general by not taxing them enough (or even subsidizing them).

nanis 5y ago
Conflating cost and price is a common habit it seems. You get paid $22. That gets you about 2.9 gallons of gasoline in Denmark which converts to about $10 in the United States. So, talking about how much the gross pay of Danish workers is without thinking at all about what they can afford to buy with that money is a true mark of economic ignorance. The original point was that Matt Bruenig is a champagne socialist. "Denmark is great" is not a counter-argument to that.
- Kim_Bruning 5y ago
  I'm pretty sure people in Denmark are not as tied to gasoline as they are in the USA. The country is smaller to begin with, and likely has better public transport, cycling, and pedestrian facilities. I guess the next major costs to compare are rent and health insurance?
  - liversage 5y ago
    Health care is free in Denmark. You don't need insurance. If you really want to you can buy insurance to lower the cost of some treatments that are not covered like physiotherapy, dentistry etc.
- nielsbot 5y ago
  But you’re only talking about gasoline prices.
- elzbardico 5y ago
  Ok, let's now compare the price of a medical procedure...
- consp 5y ago

runemadsen 5y ago

You can't just throw out numbers like "25% sales tax" and think that it paints a clear picture of how it is to live and work in a country like Denmark. I'm Danish and have lived in the US for 13 years. I have owned companies in both countries. Denmark is without question superior in almost every aspect when it comes to running a business. As a note, my personal tax rate in the US is not that much lower than my Danish tax, and in Denmark I get free health care, free education, free support if I'm struggling, and a unified, digital service for registering and running my company.

mrweasel 5y ago

You do realize that Denmark is consistently ranked as one of the easiest countries to do business in, in front of countries like the US (not much a head of the US).

heurisko 5y ago

> The author, who does not seem to have come within a thousand miles of any other work than armchair pontification, is one for thinking it'd be great to have such labor unions everywhere. Thinking it's a good idea to have strong trades unions, if you don't happen to be in a union, does not mean you are a "champagne socialist". Trade unionism and state socialism are not the same.