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The underlying uneasiness of people fighting this kind of technology is that it is technology that gives more power to a government, and that power can be then

The underlying uneasiness of people fighting this kind of technology is that it is technology that gives more power to a government, and that power can be then used against you if the government gets corrupted one way or another : if a wannabe dictators gets to power and destroy democratic power balance, or fascists gets to power, etc... A common rebuttal to this is that democracy is strong enough to withstand this, and that if it happens, people will rebel. Another fear is then that the government gets enough power from the technological advance that the people rebelling will become not strong enough, or that the government will have so much influence in people's life that they will be able to squash rebellion before it even takes form.

Dah00n 5y ago
We passed that point decades ago. It's as insanely stupid as the thought that right to bear arms could stop government.
sofixa 5y ago
> The underlying uneasiness of people fighting this kind of technology is that it is technology that gives more power to a government, and that power can be then used against you if the government gets corrupted one way or another : if a wannabe dictators gets to power and destroy democratic power balance, or fascists gets to power, etc... If that happens, everyone is screwed anyways, what difference does it make if your passport has a machine readable chip?! All governments in developed countries know all of their citizens. Making that knowledge and verification more easily usable in specific scenarios ( like verifying your identity online for government services or at airports) doesn't change anything with regards to what the government knows or has. In both the scenarios, even with paper forms/manual checks, they still know who you are (when were you born, how much taxes you pay, parents, address, etc.) and what you did in that precise moment ( passed through airport or filled taxes online). IMHO refusing technological progress that makes lives easier for almost everyone on unfounded fears is wrong. Discussions should be had about how to do that progress in the best/most secure way possible, but refusing it outright? It's just being a luddite for the sake of it.
- fsflover 5y ago
  > If that happens, everyone is screwed anyways, what difference does it make if your passport has a machine readable chip?! All governments in developed countries know all of their citizens. In case it happens, the lack of always-on, uncontrollable surveillance can help you to become a dissident and fight the corruption. Otherwise you will get in jail or killed immediately if you try.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    A passport with a chip in it isn't `the lack of always-on, uncontrollable surveillance` And even if it somehow did, you leave the device at home while you go out on your dissidence business. Again, this is hugely overblown.
    - fsflover 5y ago
      > you leave the device at home while you go out on your dissidence business This is not so simple at all. Mobile phones are required everywhere now, from reading a menu in a cafe to entering a building with QR-codes (against corona, of course). I am not even speaking about importance of communication with other people. Also, no government turns into a tyranny overnight. It happens slowly and most people will not be aware of it until late, including dissidents.
      - frenchy 5y ago
        Re the QR code, can't you just print it out on a paper?
- wott 5y ago
  > If that happens, everyone is screwed anyways, what difference does it make if your passport has a machine readable chip?! The difference it makes is that with such tech, I wouldn't have been born because my grand-parents would have been executed and my mother sent to a KZ, for they couldn't have easily forged various more or less believable identity papers and they couldn't have benefited of hard to cross-check databases. But what is it, in regard of the convenience of going 2 minutes faster through customs check during the yearly holiday across the ocean, after all?

Dah00n 5y ago

We passed that point decades ago. It's as insanely stupid as the thought that right to bear arms could stop government.

sofixa 5y ago

> The underlying uneasiness of people fighting this kind of technology is that it is technology that gives more power to a government, and that power can be then used against you if the government gets corrupted one way or another : if a wannabe dictators gets to power and destroy democratic power balance, or fascists gets to power, etc... If that happens, everyone is screwed anyways, what difference does it make if your passport has a machine readable chip?! All governments in developed countries know all of their citizens. Making that knowledge and verification more easily usable in specific scenarios ( like verifying your identity online for government services or at airports) doesn't change anything with regards to what the government knows or has. In both the scenarios, even with paper forms/manual checks, they still know who you are (when were you born, how much taxes you pay, parents, address, etc.) and what you did in that precise moment ( passed through airport or filled taxes online). IMHO refusing technological progress that makes lives easier for almost everyone on unfounded fears is wrong. Discussions should be had about how to do that progress in the best/most secure way possible, but refusing it outright? It's just being a luddite for the sake of it.

fsflover 5y ago
> If that happens, everyone is screwed anyways, what difference does it make if your passport has a machine readable chip?! All governments in developed countries know all of their citizens. In case it happens, the lack of always-on, uncontrollable surveillance can help you to become a dissident and fight the corruption. Otherwise you will get in jail or killed immediately if you try.
- sofixa 5y ago
  A passport with a chip in it isn't `the lack of always-on, uncontrollable surveillance` And even if it somehow did, you leave the device at home while you go out on your dissidence business. Again, this is hugely overblown.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    > you leave the device at home while you go out on your dissidence business This is not so simple at all. Mobile phones are required everywhere now, from reading a menu in a cafe to entering a building with QR-codes (against corona, of course). I am not even speaking about importance of communication with other people. Also, no government turns into a tyranny overnight. It happens slowly and most people will not be aware of it until late, including dissidents.
    - frenchy 5y ago
      Re the QR code, can't you just print it out on a paper?
wott 5y ago
> If that happens, everyone is screwed anyways, what difference does it make if your passport has a machine readable chip?! The difference it makes is that with such tech, I wouldn't have been born because my grand-parents would have been executed and my mother sent to a KZ, for they couldn't have easily forged various more or less believable identity papers and they couldn't have benefited of hard to cross-check databases. But what is it, in regard of the convenience of going 2 minutes faster through customs check during the yearly holiday across the ocean, after all?