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I'm a former devout Muslim writing this from Islamabad. I have personally witnessed the sheer hatred and violence perpetrated against Christians led by the vers

I'm a former devout Muslim writing this from Islamabad. I have personally witnessed the sheer hatred and violence perpetrated against Christians led by the verses I quoted. So don't teach me about Islam thank you.

racehouse 5y ago
You've also linked to a Christian proselytizing blog above. Please don't claim your background represents all Muslims or even Muslims in Islamabad. Signed another Muslim.
- omarfarooq 5y ago
  It is common among the digital Christian proselytizing community to pretend to be ex-Muslims.
trutannus 5y ago
A large portion of my family is Muslim. Many people very close to me are. Your experience does not represent every experience there is. Again, I specifically called attention to how I'm discussing the common majority of Islamic followers. You're discussing a subset which deviates from the average by a large margin. You're also discussing this in a nation known for being a hotbed of extremism. The Taliban were formed in Pakistan, so it's no surprise that there's extremists there.
- zodiakzz 5y ago
  Is the large portion of your family larger than a country of 200 million? "Common majority of muslims" is the western diaspora of a couple million? The nation is known for following the said book so it's no surprise they are extremists. You are not making any sense. What's next, Pakistanis are not Muslims?
  - trutannus 5y ago
    I don't recall ever saying that my Muslim family were diaspora, or that the diaspora were the common majority. That's an assumption you made just to discredit me dishonestly. One person is now, as of 6 years ago 'diaspora', the rest are not and still live in their Muslim majority home country of over 40 million people. The problems you're talking about don't exist there. You're also misconstruing my point in the least charitable way, and in the process implying that all Pakistani Muslims are extremists. I'm sure you see the problem with that. The only reason I brought up my family is that you stated very clearly that by being from Islamabad, and being an ex-Muslim you could not learn anything from me about Islam, with the implication being that I'm therefore ignorant since I lack the same experience. All I have been trying to suggest is that the violence you are seeing is from a violent minority, who do not reflect the values of all. On top of that, I'm suggesting that the majority follow a different view of the issue that the extremists you're talking about. Which is a fact. Your argument is equivalent to saying that the Irish Christian terrorists mean that Christians hate Protestants. This is false, a small and violent minority do. To say it does would be cherry picking. No matter how many Northern Irish folks tell me until they are blue in the face that it is representative of all Christians, it will not make it true. On top of that, you're veering into flame-war/abusive territory here. I'd suggest you review the HN guidelines, since your comments are getting less constructive each time: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - zodiakzz 5y ago
      Fair enough. My issue was you saying Islam doesn't consider other religions infidels. In a thread about a book which has 90% content ranting endlessly against infidels and cursing them (I'd know, I've read the entire 600 pages at least 10 times). But as you rightly say majority doesn't take that literally. Your flamewar accusation is nonsense.
      - trutannus 5y ago
        > My issue was you saying Islam doesn't consider other religions infidels I see the disconnect. I agree that they say everyone else are infidels, however there's some infidels who are more acceptable than others. My understanding has always been that the sentiment is a lot closer to "these infidels are so close to the truth!". Or, at least, close enough to allow marriage and coexistence. This point was intended to counter the comment that religions say others unilaterally wrong. In this case, there's some acceptance that the others are 'on the right track'.

racehouse 5y ago

You've also linked to a Christian proselytizing blog above. Please don't claim your background represents all Muslims or even Muslims in Islamabad. Signed another Muslim.

omarfarooq 5y ago
It is common among the digital Christian proselytizing community to pretend to be ex-Muslims.

trutannus 5y ago

A large portion of my family is Muslim. Many people very close to me are. Your experience does not represent every experience there is. Again, I specifically called attention to how I'm discussing the common majority of Islamic followers. You're discussing a subset which deviates from the average by a large margin. You're also discussing this in a nation known for being a hotbed of extremism. The Taliban were formed in Pakistan, so it's no surprise that there's extremists there.

zodiakzz 5y ago
Is the large portion of your family larger than a country of 200 million? "Common majority of muslims" is the western diaspora of a couple million? The nation is known for following the said book so it's no surprise they are extremists. You are not making any sense. What's next, Pakistanis are not Muslims?
- trutannus 5y ago
  I don't recall ever saying that my Muslim family were diaspora, or that the diaspora were the common majority. That's an assumption you made just to discredit me dishonestly. One person is now, as of 6 years ago 'diaspora', the rest are not and still live in their Muslim majority home country of over 40 million people. The problems you're talking about don't exist there. You're also misconstruing my point in the least charitable way, and in the process implying that all Pakistani Muslims are extremists. I'm sure you see the problem with that. The only reason I brought up my family is that you stated very clearly that by being from Islamabad, and being an ex-Muslim you could not learn anything from me about Islam, with the implication being that I'm therefore ignorant since I lack the same experience. All I have been trying to suggest is that the violence you are seeing is from a violent minority, who do not reflect the values of all. On top of that, I'm suggesting that the majority follow a different view of the issue that the extremists you're talking about. Which is a fact. Your argument is equivalent to saying that the Irish Christian terrorists mean that Christians hate Protestants. This is false, a small and violent minority do. To say it does would be cherry picking. No matter how many Northern Irish folks tell me until they are blue in the face that it is representative of all Christians, it will not make it true. On top of that, you're veering into flame-war/abusive territory here. I'd suggest you review the HN guidelines, since your comments are getting less constructive each time: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - zodiakzz 5y ago
    Fair enough. My issue was you saying Islam doesn't consider other religions infidels. In a thread about a book which has 90% content ranting endlessly against infidels and cursing them (I'd know, I've read the entire 600 pages at least 10 times). But as you rightly say majority doesn't take that literally. Your flamewar accusation is nonsense.
    - trutannus 5y ago
      > My issue was you saying Islam doesn't consider other religions infidels I see the disconnect. I agree that they say everyone else are infidels, however there's some infidels who are more acceptable than others. My understanding has always been that the sentiment is a lot closer to "these infidels are so close to the truth!". Or, at least, close enough to allow marriage and coexistence. This point was intended to counter the comment that religions say others unilaterally wrong. In this case, there's some acceptance that the others are 'on the right track'.