5 ms·

Flash Is Responsible for the Internet's Most Creative Era

79 points by artkulak 5y ago

systemvoltage 5y ago
More like commercialization of the internet is responsible for lack of creativity. Creativity in the people is the same, just hard to find.
mPReDiToR 5y ago
Flash made it very easy to create for the human on the street. It was also dangerous from a security POV. Take AS out, let us move pictures to sound easily, prego.
- stuaxo 5y ago
  AS3 wasn't too bad, MS killed the initiative to get the changes into JS itself.
- MrWiffles 5y ago
  JavaScript is not much better. With extremely few exceptions and thousands of various exploits to bypass browser protections/sandboxing, not to mention the horrible privacy violations it enables (well being cookies), I personally consider JS just as bad. Sure it’s an open standard where Flash wasn’t, but beyond that it offers very little beyond slick interfaces that hog CPU and a plethora of ways to trick users into unknowingly violating their privacy or at worst, literally running active exploit code. Yeah, Flash has tons of security problems for sure and I’m glad it’s dead, but JS fanboys live in a glass house, so throwing stones is ill-advised.
brador 5y ago
PHP/MYSQL too. Both were easy to learn and easy to use, leaving the creator free to let the juices flow.
detritus 5y ago
Curiously, there's a link currently on the front page to a very interesting-looking tool that to my mind sits in the vacuum left by Flash's demise. I've long-wondered why there wasn't a flurry of tool creation to fill the void.. 'Theatre.js: Animation motion design editor / library for high-fidelity graphics' https://github.com/AriaMinaei/theatre https://github.com/AriaMinaei/theatre
onnnon 5y ago
I agree. Back in the 2advanced [1], 007 [2], WWDS [3], etc. days, the sites were absolutely insane. Super creative. It was my inspiration for getting into web design and development. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWkNkQoQY_8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWkNkQoQY_8 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCcb3sIyuaE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCcb3sIyuaE [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVfu6WOk630 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVfu6WOk630
spicybright 5y ago
I highly recommend visiting here to help my argument below: https://www.flashgamehistory.com/ https://www.flashgamehistory.com/ It's frustrating how many vocal web devs can't recognize how amazing the flash era was from a cultural view as opposed to a security view. I know I sound like an old curmudgeon, but it enabled the average person to animate and share it online without writing a single line of code. But it was also an amazing gateway for those people to learn programming. Things are getting better, but it's been a frustrating road to get back to where flash was. Right after it was starting to phase out, all I heard online was "use javascript and css to make your animations, it's great!" Yet there was no stable editor I could find to not write code for animations. It was very much missing the point. Then we had to wait for 7 years for decent and stable tools that export to HTML+JS+CSS without you needing to learn JS. Not much flexibility like flash, though. There are interesting projects that can run flash in web asm, but it's still really glitchy, at least for old flash files (see https://old.homestarrunner.com/ https://old.homestarrunner.com/ compared to https://homestarrunner.com https://homestarrunner.com for a good example). Sorry for the rant. Flash was just immensely influential for me and many others, and I likely wouldn't be enjoying making games now without it.
- ehutch79 5y ago
  Tell me again though, why did the local chinese food place's menu need to be in flash? The issue wasn't really the flash games. It was using it for everything that ruined it for the people using it for what it did well. Standards bodies not keeping up with what people needed/wanted wasn't helping either. We're just now getting things like grids being usable, and some projects still can't use it because they're targeting browsers (that are well past being unsupported) that don't implement it. Also, try picking up an open source game engine, godot or phaser or something, you might enjoy it. don't dismiss things because it's not what you know?
  - Nicksil 5y ago
    >Tell me again though, why did the local chinese food place's menu need to be in flash? >The issue wasn't really the flash games. It was using it for everything that ruined it for the people using it for what it did well. Standards bodies not keeping up with what people needed/wanted wasn't helping either. We're just now getting things like grids being usable, and some projects still can't use it because they're targeting browsers (that are well past being unsupported) that don't implement it. Why does this matter? It isn't related. The same argument can be made against JavaScript: Why does a static website need JavaScript to render text? >Also, try picking up an open source game engine, godot or phaser or something, you might enjoy it. This suggestion isn't at all similar to the Flash platform. Doesn't even come close within the context of a lay person being able to simply create and publish with little-to-no knowledge of the underlying engine/runtime and with the tools in order to do so. >don't dismiss things because it's not what you know? What precisely do you believe they do not know? Your arguments don't address the points the user laments in the comment to which you replied, making it difficult to determine what "things" you're referring to.
throwawaysea 5y ago
How is it that no one calls out the planned death of flash as a monopolistic effort by other larger tech giants? Apple got to reduce competition for their App Store by killing the best platform for creative development on browsers. Google got to take over web standards through the influence and control they enjoy via chrome. Today there’s nothing like the old flash games, and nothing like those vibrant communities either.
- jiveturkey 5y ago
  and nothing like ye flash vulnerabilities of olde!
WealthVsSurvive 5y ago
A scene graph with script and domain-specific simplifications is a useful tool. It was basically Hypercard v2. Wish parts of the model were integrated into Web standards.
- imbnwa 5y ago
  Not needing to re-render the whole damn scene for any and all changes > Layering Canvas elements yourself
Borlands 5y ago
This is so true! Watching the new york philharmonic musical experiences in the subway, or yugop mono*crafts or v2 playing with physics, Hillman Curtis God is in the details, or the never ending games revolution (globulus, get the glass some of my favourites). Every website was a new experience to be discovered. There were multiple attempts to bring Flash runtime back using webassembly (faster, secure), maybe we’ll see Flash content yet again… or maybe we don’t need it, but it was definitely a fun era.
smusamashah 5y ago
https://ruffle.rs/ https://ruffle.rs/ now allows running all old flash things in browser again.

79 points by artkulak 5y ago

More like commercialization of the internet is responsible for lack of creativity. Creativity in the people is the same, just hard to find.

mPReDiToR 5y ago

Flash made it very easy to create for the human on the street. It was also dangerous from a security POV. Take AS out, let us move pictures to sound easily, prego.

stuaxo 5y ago
AS3 wasn't too bad, MS killed the initiative to get the changes into JS itself.
MrWiffles 5y ago
JavaScript is not much better. With extremely few exceptions and thousands of various exploits to bypass browser protections/sandboxing, not to mention the horrible privacy violations it enables (well being cookies), I personally consider JS just as bad. Sure it’s an open standard where Flash wasn’t, but beyond that it offers very little beyond slick interfaces that hog CPU and a plethora of ways to trick users into unknowingly violating their privacy or at worst, literally running active exploit code. Yeah, Flash has tons of security problems for sure and I’m glad it’s dead, but JS fanboys live in a glass house, so throwing stones is ill-advised.

brador 5y ago

PHP/MYSQL too. Both were easy to learn and easy to use, leaving the creator free to let the juices flow.

detritus 5y ago

Curiously, there's a link currently on the front page to a very interesting-looking tool that to my mind sits in the vacuum left by Flash's demise. I've long-wondered why there wasn't a flurry of tool creation to fill the void.. 'Theatre.js: Animation motion design editor / library for high-fidelity graphics' https://github.com/AriaMinaei/theatre https://github.com/AriaMinaei/theatre

onnnon 5y ago

I agree. Back in the 2advanced [1], 007 [2], WWDS [3], etc. days, the sites were absolutely insane. Super creative. It was my inspiration for getting into web design and development. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWkNkQoQY_8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWkNkQoQY_8 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCcb3sIyuaE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCcb3sIyuaE [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVfu6WOk630 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVfu6WOk630

spicybright 5y ago

I highly recommend visiting here to help my argument below: https://www.flashgamehistory.com/ https://www.flashgamehistory.com/ It's frustrating how many vocal web devs can't recognize how amazing the flash era was from a cultural view as opposed to a security view. I know I sound like an old curmudgeon, but it enabled the average person to animate and share it online without writing a single line of code. But it was also an amazing gateway for those people to learn programming. Things are getting better, but it's been a frustrating road to get back to where flash was. Right after it was starting to phase out, all I heard online was "use javascript and css to make your animations, it's great!" Yet there was no stable editor I could find to not write code for animations. It was very much missing the point. Then we had to wait for 7 years for decent and stable tools that export to HTML+JS+CSS without you needing to learn JS. Not much flexibility like flash, though. There are interesting projects that can run flash in web asm, but it's still really glitchy, at least for old flash files (see https://old.homestarrunner.com/ https://old.homestarrunner.com/ compared to https://homestarrunner.com https://homestarrunner.com for a good example). Sorry for the rant. Flash was just immensely influential for me and many others, and I likely wouldn't be enjoying making games now without it.

ehutch79 5y ago
Tell me again though, why did the local chinese food place's menu need to be in flash? The issue wasn't really the flash games. It was using it for everything that ruined it for the people using it for what it did well. Standards bodies not keeping up with what people needed/wanted wasn't helping either. We're just now getting things like grids being usable, and some projects still can't use it because they're targeting browsers (that are well past being unsupported) that don't implement it. Also, try picking up an open source game engine, godot or phaser or something, you might enjoy it. don't dismiss things because it's not what you know?
- Nicksil 5y ago
  >Tell me again though, why did the local chinese food place's menu need to be in flash? >The issue wasn't really the flash games. It was using it for everything that ruined it for the people using it for what it did well. Standards bodies not keeping up with what people needed/wanted wasn't helping either. We're just now getting things like grids being usable, and some projects still can't use it because they're targeting browsers (that are well past being unsupported) that don't implement it. Why does this matter? It isn't related. The same argument can be made against JavaScript: Why does a static website need JavaScript to render text? >Also, try picking up an open source game engine, godot or phaser or something, you might enjoy it. This suggestion isn't at all similar to the Flash platform. Doesn't even come close within the context of a lay person being able to simply create and publish with little-to-no knowledge of the underlying engine/runtime and with the tools in order to do so. >don't dismiss things because it's not what you know? What precisely do you believe they do not know? Your arguments don't address the points the user laments in the comment to which you replied, making it difficult to determine what "things" you're referring to.

throwawaysea 5y ago

How is it that no one calls out the planned death of flash as a monopolistic effort by other larger tech giants? Apple got to reduce competition for their App Store by killing the best platform for creative development on browsers. Google got to take over web standards through the influence and control they enjoy via chrome. Today there’s nothing like the old flash games, and nothing like those vibrant communities either.

jiveturkey 5y ago
and nothing like ye flash vulnerabilities of olde!

WealthVsSurvive 5y ago

A scene graph with script and domain-specific simplifications is a useful tool. It was basically Hypercard v2. Wish parts of the model were integrated into Web standards.

imbnwa 5y ago
Not needing to re-render the whole damn scene for any and all changes > Layering Canvas elements yourself

Borlands 5y ago

This is so true! Watching the new york philharmonic musical experiences in the subway, or yugop mono*crafts or v2 playing with physics, Hillman Curtis God is in the details, or the never ending games revolution (globulus, get the glass some of my favourites). Every website was a new experience to be discovered. There were multiple attempts to bring Flash runtime back using webassembly (faster, secure), maybe we’ll see Flash content yet again… or maybe we don’t need it, but it was definitely a fun era.

smusamashah 5y ago

https://ruffle.rs/ https://ruffle.rs/ now allows running all old flash things in browser again.