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This seems less clever when you realize the same argument applies to every other personality trait, because they're all dependent on something. Nobody does anyt

This seems less clever when you realize the same argument applies to every other personality trait, because they're all dependent on something. Nobody does anything truly nonsensical because the brain is not capable of it. Every attitude and behavior is the result of circumstance. Despite that we've as a society decided that some behaviors deserve moral judgment. If you want to argue that judgment is a mistake go ahead, but laziness isn't any more real or fake than boredom or talkativeness or pedophilia or rudeness.

themacguffinman 5y ago
Eh I don't think that's entirely true. Not all traits are so circumstantial. Some biologically inherited or genetic conditions (eg. ADHD or Aspergers) correlate highly with personality "traits" that can hold pretty consistently across different environments and circumstances. There are people with brain damage that are observed to be consistently more aggressive, consistent enough to be identifiable as a trait. In some cases, purely physical medication on its own can substantially alter or eliminate certain behaviors and "traits". They're all dependent on something, but they're not all highly dependent on the surrounding circumstance like the article suggests laziness is.
- Causality1 5y ago
  Why wouldn't laziness also be potentially dependent on biology?
  - gchamonlive 5y ago
    That's because eugenics is absolute nonsense and has been debunked time and again.
  - kayodelycaon 5y ago
    There are genetic disorders that can severely affect executive function but that isn’t “lazy”. It just appears to be.
  - themacguffinman 5y ago
    My understanding is that yes, it can sometimes be dependent on biology, but the really interesting part is that it's also highly dependent on circumstance and your work environment. ADHD & procrastination is a good example: the behavior of people with ADHD is not uncommonly described as "lazy" because ADHD delays the brain's development of executive function capability. Well as the article points out, for decades procrastination has been shown to be a problem of executive function, so if your ADHD brain isn't fully capable of executive function you're practically guaranteed to fail at executive function in the same way that causes procrastination. The behavior is almost identical: you're continually putting off the required task. But not all procrastination is caused by a literal brain disorder. Your neurotypical brain can be capable of executive function but still fail at it. The article points out some reasons why: > When a person fails to begin a project that they care about, it’s typically due to either a) anxiety about their attempts not being “good enough” or b) confusion about what the first steps of the task are. Not laziness. In fact, procrastination is more likely when the task is meaningful and the individual cares about doing it well. You don't need to be biologically impaired to be confused about what the first steps are. You don't need to be biologically prone to anxiety to be anxious. More importantly, you can change your surrounding environment/circumstance to change these factors and therefore change this particular behavior. ADHD is actually really interesting because its executive dysfunction can be so effectively compensated by the environment. The same environmental aids that might compensate for the executive function failure of a neurotypical procrastinator can also compensate in someone with ADHD to the extent that they perform at the same level as their neurotypical peers. Subjectively, I think that's a really surprising and clever finding. This high circumstantiality isn't necessarily true for all psychological traits. Research suggests that homosexuality in males, for example, is not so easily changed or predicted by circumstantial changes. It's also not clear that you can compensate for the dysfunction of Aspergers/Autism and its resultant behavior. (feel free to correct my science, I admit I'm not so well versed in it!)
    - watwut 5y ago
      > When a person fails to begin a project that they care about, it’s typically due to either a) anxiety about their attempts not being “good enough” or b) confusion about what the first steps of the task are. Not laziness. In fact, procrastination is more likely when the task is meaningful and the individual cares about doing it well. Very frankly, this is not my experience and sounds like pseudo-pop-psychology. Yes, sometimes the task is too hard for me and consequently I dont know where to start. But really, I am way more likely to fail to do boring "I know exactly what to do" projects and chores. I know exactly where to start with vacuum cleaning or washing dishes. I have zero worry that I will fail. It is just that, well watching videos is more fun and require less effort. Quite similar to what people normally call laziness.
  - SilverRed 5y ago
    This all can be broken down all the way to "do we have free will at all". Maybe literally everything is predetermined and is purely a response to the inputs. And then does it even matter what the answer to that question is? Is it useful to think "Well they are just biologically lazy" instead of trying to find ways to motivate people to be less lazy.
    - professoretc 5y ago
      Perhaps we only think people are biologically lazy because we are predetermined to do so.
kayodelycaon 5y ago
> Despite that we've as a society decided that some behaviors deserve moral judgment. And God forbid someone has a disability. That’s no excuse for failing to live up to the standards of people who aren’t lazy. (1) 1: May or may not be the intention of the parent comment, but that’s where this line of thinking ends. (And where my childhood begins…)
locallost 5y ago
Doesn't the author demonstrate that this is exactly the opposite, by making lazy students not lazy simply by taking their needs into account?
arnoooooo 5y ago
But we do have to make moral judgments. That's just a consequence of valuing some things over others. And we have to be answerable for our actions. You can make that part of the circumstances if you will, if you really believe that people have no free will.

themacguffinman 5y ago

Eh I don't think that's entirely true. Not all traits are so circumstantial. Some biologically inherited or genetic conditions (eg. ADHD or Aspergers) correlate highly with personality "traits" that can hold pretty consistently across different environments and circumstances. There are people with brain damage that are observed to be consistently more aggressive, consistent enough to be identifiable as a trait. In some cases, purely physical medication on its own can substantially alter or eliminate certain behaviors and "traits". They're all dependent on something, but they're not all highly dependent on the surrounding circumstance like the article suggests laziness is.

Causality1 5y ago
Why wouldn't laziness also be potentially dependent on biology?
- gchamonlive 5y ago
  That's because eugenics is absolute nonsense and has been debunked time and again.
- kayodelycaon 5y ago
  There are genetic disorders that can severely affect executive function but that isn’t “lazy”. It just appears to be.
- themacguffinman 5y ago
  My understanding is that yes, it can sometimes be dependent on biology, but the really interesting part is that it's also highly dependent on circumstance and your work environment. ADHD & procrastination is a good example: the behavior of people with ADHD is not uncommonly described as "lazy" because ADHD delays the brain's development of executive function capability. Well as the article points out, for decades procrastination has been shown to be a problem of executive function, so if your ADHD brain isn't fully capable of executive function you're practically guaranteed to fail at executive function in the same way that causes procrastination. The behavior is almost identical: you're continually putting off the required task. But not all procrastination is caused by a literal brain disorder. Your neurotypical brain can be capable of executive function but still fail at it. The article points out some reasons why: > When a person fails to begin a project that they care about, it’s typically due to either a) anxiety about their attempts not being “good enough” or b) confusion about what the first steps of the task are. Not laziness. In fact, procrastination is more likely when the task is meaningful and the individual cares about doing it well. You don't need to be biologically impaired to be confused about what the first steps are. You don't need to be biologically prone to anxiety to be anxious. More importantly, you can change your surrounding environment/circumstance to change these factors and therefore change this particular behavior. ADHD is actually really interesting because its executive dysfunction can be so effectively compensated by the environment. The same environmental aids that might compensate for the executive function failure of a neurotypical procrastinator can also compensate in someone with ADHD to the extent that they perform at the same level as their neurotypical peers. Subjectively, I think that's a really surprising and clever finding. This high circumstantiality isn't necessarily true for all psychological traits. Research suggests that homosexuality in males, for example, is not so easily changed or predicted by circumstantial changes. It's also not clear that you can compensate for the dysfunction of Aspergers/Autism and its resultant behavior. (feel free to correct my science, I admit I'm not so well versed in it!)
  - watwut 5y ago
    > When a person fails to begin a project that they care about, it’s typically due to either a) anxiety about their attempts not being “good enough” or b) confusion about what the first steps of the task are. Not laziness. In fact, procrastination is more likely when the task is meaningful and the individual cares about doing it well. Very frankly, this is not my experience and sounds like pseudo-pop-psychology. Yes, sometimes the task is too hard for me and consequently I dont know where to start. But really, I am way more likely to fail to do boring "I know exactly what to do" projects and chores. I know exactly where to start with vacuum cleaning or washing dishes. I have zero worry that I will fail. It is just that, well watching videos is more fun and require less effort. Quite similar to what people normally call laziness.
- SilverRed 5y ago
  This all can be broken down all the way to "do we have free will at all". Maybe literally everything is predetermined and is purely a response to the inputs. And then does it even matter what the answer to that question is? Is it useful to think "Well they are just biologically lazy" instead of trying to find ways to motivate people to be less lazy.
  - professoretc 5y ago
    Perhaps we only think people are biologically lazy because we are predetermined to do so.

kayodelycaon 5y ago

> Despite that we've as a society decided that some behaviors deserve moral judgment. And God forbid someone has a disability. That’s no excuse for failing to live up to the standards of people who aren’t lazy. (1) 1: May or may not be the intention of the parent comment, but that’s where this line of thinking ends. (And where my childhood begins…)

locallost 5y ago

Doesn't the author demonstrate that this is exactly the opposite, by making lazy students not lazy simply by taking their needs into account?

arnoooooo 5y ago

But we do have to make moral judgments. That's just a consequence of valuing some things over others. And we have to be answerable for our actions. You can make that part of the circumstances if you will, if you really believe that people have no free will.