3 ms·

> So you're saying that if the government only steals money from a few innocent people, that's OK? Yes! Just like it is OK (as in better than nothing) to have

> So you're saying that if the government only steals money from a few innocent people, that's OK? Yes! Just like it is OK (as in better than nothing) to have innocent people imprisoned sometimes, or denied common rights unjustly due to judgement mistakes. Policies are hard like that. There's a thin line and to discuss them it is important to understand everything that will happen if you move one.

AlbertCory 5y ago
Policies are indeed hard, but there are basic principles to follow, like the right to due process before one is deprived of liberty or property. And having your property taken away and forcing you to file legal proceedings to get it back, with no interest paid for the intervening time, is very definitely being deprived of property. Let's take a different case: Duterte in the Phillippines. "We know who's a drug dealer, so the police can just kill them. Yeah, maybe a few innocent people will get killed, but hey, small price to pay." Is that too extreme? What if the police just rounded up people they thought were drug dealers and jailed them, putting the burden of proving their innocence on them? "Innocent until proven guilty" - that's the policy that you cannot violate.
- lostmsu 5y ago
  > the right to due process Which is simply a process, written into the law. > before one is deprived of liberty or property I'd be curious to hear what the universal right to "due process" is, if it is not defined as above, and which would allow to arrest people on the crime scene or even better after a short chase from the crime scene, including the property they might have just stolen. > Let's take a different case: Duterte in the Phillippines. You said immediately after my comment, whose point was that how much exactly to move the line and which direction is the process of policing.

3 ms·

> So you're saying that if the government only steals money from a few innocent people, that's OK? Yes! Just like it is OK (as in better than nothing) to have

by lostmsu 5y ago

AlbertCory 5y ago
Policies are indeed hard, but there are basic principles to follow, like the right to due process before one is deprived of liberty or property. And having your property taken away and forcing you to file legal proceedings to get it back, with no interest paid for the intervening time, is very definitely being deprived of property. Let's take a different case: Duterte in the Phillippines. "We know who's a drug dealer, so the police can just kill them. Yeah, maybe a few innocent people will get killed, but hey, small price to pay." Is that too extreme? What if the police just rounded up people they thought were drug dealers and jailed them, putting the burden of proving their innocence on them? "Innocent until proven guilty" - that's the policy that you cannot violate.
- lostmsu 5y ago
  > the right to due process Which is simply a process, written into the law. > before one is deprived of liberty or property I'd be curious to hear what the universal right to "due process" is, if it is not defined as above, and which would allow to arrest people on the crime scene or even better after a short chase from the crime scene, including the property they might have just stolen. > Let's take a different case: Duterte in the Phillippines. You said immediately after my comment, whose point was that how much exactly to move the line and which direction is the process of policing.