5 ms·

Adguard Letter of Support to Quad9

78 points by NmAmDa 5y ago

CivBase 5y ago
> Hamburg Germany court (310 O 99/21) has recently sent a notice to Quad9 (a standard recursive DNS resolver) demanding to stop resolving certain domains for all residents in Germany on request from Sony Music GmbH. According to Sony, those domains in question are infringing on properties that they claim are covered by their copyrights. This would be like a German court ordering Yellowbook to stop listing the phone number for a DVD store because they were known to sell bootleg copies of Sony movies. What a joke.
- oneplane 5y ago
  Same as ordering the post office to stop processing mail because someone sent a copy of a book in the mail...
  - zamadatix 5y ago
    GP's comparison seems considerably more accurate. Even if your position is that the only way the Post Office could comply with filtering the mail for the address that's still not the same as an order to stop processing mail. Not to mention "someone sent a" makes it sounds like a single instance which is certainly not what http://uu.canna.to/ http://uu.canna.to/ regardless if you agree or disagree with pirating content.
    - oneplane 5y ago
      The comparison is not the mail or the processing, it's the fact that it's a transporting service and nothing more, just like DNS.
      - zamadatix 5y ago
        Again, the order wasn't for quad9 to stop delivering DNS as a whole though, it's for the particular address. Much as the GP's example is about a particular entry in the yellowpages.
        oneplane 5y ago
        I don't think anyone here suggests a global delivery stoppage...
anonymousisme 5y ago
I do not understand why more people don't switch to a decentralized DNS such as OpenNIC (https://www.opennic.org https://www.opennic.org) Governments have abused their control of DNS. A distributed system (with trust and safeguards) is the better way.
- gizdan 5y ago
  Because no one knows about it. But also, looking at their list of servers, the majority is offline. Assuming this is because any person can run one, it's probably the reason. On top of the above, the likes of Google are enforcing their DNS servers. For example, I run AdGuard Home with it's DHCP functionality. I am unable to rely on the DHCP settings on my Android phone because Google forces the first DNS server to be 8.8.8.8 with (as far as I can tell) no way to disable this. I think at least for the foreseeable future the solution is to run Unbound and stop relying on DNS resolvers combined with a firewall that redirects all DNS records AdGuard Home/PiHole. This is obviously not a solution to the general public.
  - ryuuchin 5y ago
    I can't speak to Google forcing DNS, I don't know if this is true. However, it will respect the private DNS option (DNS-over-TLS) which you can point to whatever you want (like NextDNS for filtering).
    - gizdan 5y ago
      Interesting to know. I'll have to look into that. AdGuard Home can be set up easily with DoT and DoH so I'll have to try that.
      - ryuuchin 5y ago
        Just keep in mind some mobile carries block DoT so it's not always an option (Android does not natively support DoH).
  - anonymousisme 5y ago
oofabz 5y ago
Quad9 is based in Switzerland, so the German court should only have jurisdiction over whatever servers are in Germany. It seems like the worst case scenario is that Quad9 shuts down their German servers, but still serves German requests from servers in neighboring countries. That said this is still terrible and I hope the German court reconsiders their decision. The free flow of information is more valuable than protecting copyrights, because the former benefits many more people. Most of the copyright holders who feel threatened by piracy are not even German! The court is protecting big American businesses over individual Germans.
- zinekeller 5y ago
  It seems that most of HN doesn't know the Lugano convention (which basically reaches the entire EEA).
ignoramous 5y ago
> The spendings will only grow as more and more similar court rulings are handed out (which without a doubt will come eventually). It will become near impossible to uphold a DNS service, and all small DNS resolvers will vanish. I run one such small public DNS (DoH-only) resolver (primarily popular in countries where censorship is low to moderate), and know several other folks who do. Just the other day we were discussing the implications of this ruling, but coming from a country with dismal digital/internet freedom track-record, this made me sit back and contemplate for a bit (unblocking access to censored web properties may soon be a crime as the government here bids to criminalise VPNs): I believe, the inevitable over-regulation and insurmountable legal threats are going to ruin it for the hobbyists who thrive at the fringes. Internet may soon go the way of the telecom industry. Controlled by a few, regulated to oblivion, with high barriers to entry. I hope I am wrong.
propogandist 5y ago
Quad9 was co-created by IBM, they will bow the knee to preserve government contracts and big R&D bets in Germany https://www.forbes.com/sites/moorinsights/2021/06/15/ibm-and-fraunhofer-announce-german-quantum-computing-partnership/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/moorinsights/2021/06/15/ibm-and...
- bwoodcock 5y ago
  IBM is one of many donors to Quad9, but they have no seat on its multistakeholder governance board. https://quad9.net/about/foundation-council https://quad9.net/about/foundation-council

78 points by NmAmDa 5y ago

> Hamburg Germany court (310 O 99/21) has recently sent a notice to Quad9 (a standard recursive DNS resolver) demanding to stop resolving certain domains for all residents in Germany on request from Sony Music GmbH. According to Sony, those domains in question are infringing on properties that they claim are covered by their copyrights. This would be like a German court ordering Yellowbook to stop listing the phone number for a DVD store because they were known to sell bootleg copies of Sony movies. What a joke.

oneplane 5y ago
Same as ordering the post office to stop processing mail because someone sent a copy of a book in the mail...
- zamadatix 5y ago
  GP's comparison seems considerably more accurate. Even if your position is that the only way the Post Office could comply with filtering the mail for the address that's still not the same as an order to stop processing mail. Not to mention "someone sent a" makes it sounds like a single instance which is certainly not what http://uu.canna.to/ http://uu.canna.to/ regardless if you agree or disagree with pirating content.
  - oneplane 5y ago
    The comparison is not the mail or the processing, it's the fact that it's a transporting service and nothing more, just like DNS.
    - zamadatix 5y ago
      Again, the order wasn't for quad9 to stop delivering DNS as a whole though, it's for the particular address. Much as the GP's example is about a particular entry in the yellowpages.
      - oneplane 5y ago
        I don't think anyone here suggests a global delivery stoppage...

anonymousisme 5y ago

I do not understand why more people don't switch to a decentralized DNS such as OpenNIC (https://www.opennic.org https://www.opennic.org) Governments have abused their control of DNS. A distributed system (with trust and safeguards) is the better way.

gizdan 5y ago
Because no one knows about it. But also, looking at their list of servers, the majority is offline. Assuming this is because any person can run one, it's probably the reason. On top of the above, the likes of Google are enforcing their DNS servers. For example, I run AdGuard Home with it's DHCP functionality. I am unable to rely on the DHCP settings on my Android phone because Google forces the first DNS server to be 8.8.8.8 with (as far as I can tell) no way to disable this. I think at least for the foreseeable future the solution is to run Unbound and stop relying on DNS resolvers combined with a firewall that redirects all DNS records AdGuard Home/PiHole. This is obviously not a solution to the general public.
- ryuuchin 5y ago
  I can't speak to Google forcing DNS, I don't know if this is true. However, it will respect the private DNS option (DNS-over-TLS) which you can point to whatever you want (like NextDNS for filtering).
  - gizdan 5y ago
    Interesting to know. I'll have to look into that. AdGuard Home can be set up easily with DoT and DoH so I'll have to try that.
    - ryuuchin 5y ago
      Just keep in mind some mobile carries block DoT so it's not always an option (Android does not natively support DoH).
- anonymousisme 5y ago

oofabz 5y ago

Quad9 is based in Switzerland, so the German court should only have jurisdiction over whatever servers are in Germany. It seems like the worst case scenario is that Quad9 shuts down their German servers, but still serves German requests from servers in neighboring countries. That said this is still terrible and I hope the German court reconsiders their decision. The free flow of information is more valuable than protecting copyrights, because the former benefits many more people. Most of the copyright holders who feel threatened by piracy are not even German! The court is protecting big American businesses over individual Germans.

zinekeller 5y ago
It seems that most of HN doesn't know the Lugano convention (which basically reaches the entire EEA).

ignoramous 5y ago

> The spendings will only grow as more and more similar court rulings are handed out (which without a doubt will come eventually). It will become near impossible to uphold a DNS service, and all small DNS resolvers will vanish. I run one such small public DNS (DoH-only) resolver (primarily popular in countries where censorship is low to moderate), and know several other folks who do. Just the other day we were discussing the implications of this ruling, but coming from a country with dismal digital/internet freedom track-record, this made me sit back and contemplate for a bit (unblocking access to censored web properties may soon be a crime as the government here bids to criminalise VPNs): I believe, the inevitable over-regulation and insurmountable legal threats are going to ruin it for the hobbyists who thrive at the fringes. Internet may soon go the way of the telecom industry. Controlled by a few, regulated to oblivion, with high barriers to entry. I hope I am wrong.

propogandist 5y ago

Quad9 was co-created by IBM, they will bow the knee to preserve government contracts and big R&D bets in Germany https://www.forbes.com/sites/moorinsights/2021/06/15/ibm-and-fraunhofer-announce-german-quantum-computing-partnership/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/moorinsights/2021/06/15/ibm-and...

bwoodcock 5y ago
IBM is one of many donors to Quad9, but they have no seat on its multistakeholder governance board. https://quad9.net/about/foundation-council https://quad9.net/about/foundation-council