4 ms·

having done both, i've gotta say being a knowledge worker who gets to freelance in my pjs is way easier than doing manual labor out in the snow for 9 hours a da

having done both, i've gotta say being a knowledge worker who gets to freelance in my pjs is way easier than doing manual labor out in the snow for 9 hours a day or doing roofing jobs under the hot sun. to be sure i had to learn way more stuff to do what i do now but there is no comparison when it comes to the actual day-to-day labor.

mbrodersen 5y ago
If that is true then why are companies willing to pay a reasonably good software developer a $100k salary instead of just hiring a cheaper roofer instead? It kinda should be really obvious but in case it isn’t: a roofer can’t do the job.
- gaze 5y ago
  Spoken like someone who has never done hard labor
  - crazydoggers 5y ago
    Spoken like someone with no knowledge of the other person, who’s arguments are based primarily on ad hominem, and who seems to be wed to a socialist workers agenda where every person should be compensated equally for any work. I have done many types of jobs, including physical labor. I’m way more tired, and usually much more stressed out, after doing what you call “easy” jobs. Often the hard labor makes you feel healthier.
  - mbrodersen 5y ago
    You don’t get it. Working hard is not what a software company pays for. What they pay for is knowledge. The knowledge to solve difficult software development problems. The best software developers don’t work hard. They have the skills to automate most of the work.
  - mbrodersen 5y ago
    Why are you avoiding answering my question? No company wants to pay employees more than they need to. So why are they paying software developers a lot more than roofers? And why aren’t all roofers applying for “easy” well paid software development jobs? Why aren’t you grabbing one of those “easy” well paid jobs?
gaze 5y ago
Yes.
crazydoggers 5y ago
Your definition only includes physical difficulties (although many developers can tell you that development jobs are horrible for your health, and roofing in the sun actually might be better for your health) But difficult or hard doesn’t mean physically tiring. It is not easier to make complex decisions, nor to dedicate years of training in order to even begin doing a job. Some trades require more training. Things like electrical work or plumbing. In those trades people apprentice and as their experience grows so does their pay, often rivaling or exceeding that of software developers… why? Because it take years of dedication. The reductionism that hard only means physically taxing makes little sense. It leads to the idea that only physical laborers should be paid well, which doesn’t make any economic sense. Does that mean a factory worker that stand around all day pushing a button should get paid next to nothing? Many of those are physically easy (some even provide chairs) but boring as hell. (And before someone says that factory jobs are all hellish, I have talked to people who have done jobs sorting coffee lids, or monitoring automated work lines. And those people’s first hand experience will tell you it’s often just mind numbingly boring, and not at all difficult) Ultimately compensation isn’t made against someone’s arbitrary sense of difficulty. Instead it’s made against how many people are willing and able to do the job. And that’s the current distorted reality. Some people are thinking due to pandemic related consequences that there are fewer people willing and able to do the job.

mbrodersen 5y ago

If that is true then why are companies willing to pay a reasonably good software developer a $100k salary instead of just hiring a cheaper roofer instead? It kinda should be really obvious but in case it isn’t: a roofer can’t do the job.

gaze 5y ago
Spoken like someone who has never done hard labor
- crazydoggers 5y ago
  Spoken like someone with no knowledge of the other person, who’s arguments are based primarily on ad hominem, and who seems to be wed to a socialist workers agenda where every person should be compensated equally for any work. I have done many types of jobs, including physical labor. I’m way more tired, and usually much more stressed out, after doing what you call “easy” jobs. Often the hard labor makes you feel healthier.
- mbrodersen 5y ago
  You don’t get it. Working hard is not what a software company pays for. What they pay for is knowledge. The knowledge to solve difficult software development problems. The best software developers don’t work hard. They have the skills to automate most of the work.
- mbrodersen 5y ago
  Why are you avoiding answering my question? No company wants to pay employees more than they need to. So why are they paying software developers a lot more than roofers? And why aren’t all roofers applying for “easy” well paid software development jobs? Why aren’t you grabbing one of those “easy” well paid jobs?

gaze 5y ago

Yes.

crazydoggers 5y ago

Your definition only includes physical difficulties (although many developers can tell you that development jobs are horrible for your health, and roofing in the sun actually might be better for your health) But difficult or hard doesn’t mean physically tiring. It is not easier to make complex decisions, nor to dedicate years of training in order to even begin doing a job. Some trades require more training. Things like electrical work or plumbing. In those trades people apprentice and as their experience grows so does their pay, often rivaling or exceeding that of software developers… why? Because it take years of dedication. The reductionism that hard only means physically taxing makes little sense. It leads to the idea that only physical laborers should be paid well, which doesn’t make any economic sense. Does that mean a factory worker that stand around all day pushing a button should get paid next to nothing? Many of those are physically easy (some even provide chairs) but boring as hell. (And before someone says that factory jobs are all hellish, I have talked to people who have done jobs sorting coffee lids, or monitoring automated work lines. And those people’s first hand experience will tell you it’s often just mind numbingly boring, and not at all difficult) Ultimately compensation isn’t made against someone’s arbitrary sense of difficulty. Instead it’s made against how many people are willing and able to do the job. And that’s the current distorted reality. Some people are thinking due to pandemic related consequences that there are fewer people willing and able to do the job.