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A few legitimate reasons to have a pile of cash: 1. Islam and some fundamental Christian denominations prohibit dealing with those who do usury, so some people

by Aspos 5y ago

A few legitimate reasons to have a pile of cash: 1. Islam and some fundamental Christian denominations prohibit dealing with those who do usury, so some people can't use banks. 2. One could just have sold a car for cash. 3. People lend money to each other and the chef could just have been paid back. 4. Some people believe in reptiloids, some believe in imminent collapse of the society, so they buy bitcoin, dig bunkers and store cash in safe boxes. 5. Some people may want to store money in a place which is out of reach of their ex-spouses. My point being: big pile of cash is a bad excuse for a search.

jfrunyon 5y ago
I suspect you started replying before I edited my comment to remove mention of the suspiciousness of his cash pile. Frankly, neither #2 nor #3 apply to a pile of cash in a safe deposit box (and who loans almost twice the median income to someone?!), and #5 is illegal. But yes, big pile of cash is definitely a bad excuse for a search and a worse excuse for a seizure.
- crooked-v 5y ago
  > and #5 is illegal Only if that's an attempt to evade legal requirements, rather than (for example) moving personal money out of accounts that the ex-spouse has access to.
  - jfrunyon 5y ago
    You can "(for example)" move personal money out of accounts that the ex-spouse has access to without putting it in a safe deposit box.
    - kbelder 5y ago
      Or, you can put it in a safe deposit box.
    - crooked-v 5y ago
      That presumes other accounts or the ability to immediately open other accounts.
- kook_throwaway 5y ago
  2 and 3 absolutely can apply. Considering you get reported to the feds for transactions over $10,000 (or is it lower now?), it's completely reasonable for someone to decide it's not worth the risk and set the cash aside. As far as number 5, you can't assume that's illegal either. I have a family member who's ex wife continues to commit identity theft and cause headaches for him 5 years after the divorce is over.
  - jfrunyon 5y ago
    > Considering you get reported to the feds for transactions over $10,000 (or is it lower now?), it's completely reasonable for someone to decide it's not worth the risk and set the cash aside. In that case, it would also be illegal. > As far as number 5, you can't assume that's illegal either. I have a family member [whose] ex wife continues to commit identity theft and cause headaches for him 5 years after the divorce is over. Okay? So he keeps his money in cash in a safe deposit box? Doubt.
    - Zircom 5y ago
      >In that case, it would also be illegal. It'd only be illegal if they weren't paying taxes on it or otherwise not reporting it for other purposes. Having a giant pile of cash because I don't like my bank auto reporting my money in and of itself isn't evidence of anything.
Jenk 5y ago
Legitimate reason to have a pile of cash #0: Because I want to. Innocent until _proven_ guilty. It is not "could be guilty until you prove your innocence" nor is it "assumed guilty just because it fits a narrative" and nor is it "guilty because that is something other people who turned out to be guilty also did"
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  Stockpiling cash isn't a crime and unless it reached ludicrous proportions like a 25 year old barista having $5 million in a safety deposit box then burden of proof should lie on the government obviously people would have records they paid taxes on said amount surely though.
  - crooked-v 5y ago
    Burden of proof should always lie on the government.
  - Jenk 5y ago
    My understanding of the US legal system (I'm British) is that stockpiling cash isn't a crime, irrespective of the amount. Sure, sleeping on a mattress made of $100 bills might raise suspicion.. but that's still not a crime. If the government suspect you haven't paid your taxes, the burden is still on them to prove you didn't pay your taxes. If they have any evidence to bring this to a court, it would need to pass the threshold of actually being evidence of absent tax payments, it is not enough to say "They are sleeping on a bed of benjamins, your honor." I'm well aware this is ignoring how hilariously broken actual legal proceedings are, of course, thus scenarios like the one that started this thread.

by Aspos 5y ago

jfrunyon 5y ago

I suspect you started replying before I edited my comment to remove mention of the suspiciousness of his cash pile. Frankly, neither #2 nor #3 apply to a pile of cash in a safe deposit box (and who loans almost twice the median income to someone?!), and #5 is illegal. But yes, big pile of cash is definitely a bad excuse for a search and a worse excuse for a seizure.

crooked-v 5y ago
> and #5 is illegal Only if that's an attempt to evade legal requirements, rather than (for example) moving personal money out of accounts that the ex-spouse has access to.
- jfrunyon 5y ago
  You can "(for example)" move personal money out of accounts that the ex-spouse has access to without putting it in a safe deposit box.
  - kbelder 5y ago
    Or, you can put it in a safe deposit box.
  - crooked-v 5y ago
    That presumes other accounts or the ability to immediately open other accounts.
kook_throwaway 5y ago
2 and 3 absolutely can apply. Considering you get reported to the feds for transactions over $10,000 (or is it lower now?), it's completely reasonable for someone to decide it's not worth the risk and set the cash aside. As far as number 5, you can't assume that's illegal either. I have a family member who's ex wife continues to commit identity theft and cause headaches for him 5 years after the divorce is over.
- jfrunyon 5y ago
  > Considering you get reported to the feds for transactions over $10,000 (or is it lower now?), it's completely reasonable for someone to decide it's not worth the risk and set the cash aside. In that case, it would also be illegal. > As far as number 5, you can't assume that's illegal either. I have a family member [whose] ex wife continues to commit identity theft and cause headaches for him 5 years after the divorce is over. Okay? So he keeps his money in cash in a safe deposit box? Doubt.
  - Zircom 5y ago
    >In that case, it would also be illegal. It'd only be illegal if they weren't paying taxes on it or otherwise not reporting it for other purposes. Having a giant pile of cash because I don't like my bank auto reporting my money in and of itself isn't evidence of anything.

Jenk 5y ago

Legitimate reason to have a pile of cash #0: Because I want to. Innocent until _proven_ guilty. It is not "could be guilty until you prove your innocence" nor is it "assumed guilty just because it fits a narrative" and nor is it "guilty because that is something other people who turned out to be guilty also did"

stjohnswarts 5y ago
Stockpiling cash isn't a crime and unless it reached ludicrous proportions like a 25 year old barista having $5 million in a safety deposit box then burden of proof should lie on the government obviously people would have records they paid taxes on said amount surely though.
- crooked-v 5y ago
  Burden of proof should always lie on the government.
- Jenk 5y ago
  My understanding of the US legal system (I'm British) is that stockpiling cash isn't a crime, irrespective of the amount. Sure, sleeping on a mattress made of $100 bills might raise suspicion.. but that's still not a crime. If the government suspect you haven't paid your taxes, the burden is still on them to prove you didn't pay your taxes. If they have any evidence to bring this to a court, it would need to pass the threshold of actually being evidence of absent tax payments, it is not enough to say "They are sleeping on a bed of benjamins, your honor." I'm well aware this is ignoring how hilariously broken actual legal proceedings are, of course, thus scenarios like the one that started this thread.